If you threw a party tomorrow and invited 100 people to your house where everyone can bring a +1 and 10 of those people were racist or threatening going around verbally abusing your other guests would you let this keep going, given that it's your house and all? Or would you want to take the initiative to protect your guests and the party by asking those 10 people to leave for perfectly acceptable reasons? We're not talking about protecting the fundamental freedom of speech here where the government cannot arrest you, hold you or imprison you for the things you say, we are talking about keeping the party going and assuring we do what we can as hosts to eliminate any abusive behaviour that may stem from people wanting to be abusive. Having said that... like a private party at someone's house, we too are a private run website that has a specific set of rules to govern our platform, and those rules need to be followed so that we can keep the party going. We all see the effects of that abusive behaviour on other social networks, we won't let it happen here, and we believe the community wont either.
Well said. I don't mind if the community is a little protected from transforming into a site that projectss hate and allows trolling. I joined SNAPZU not because we need to change it to be more reddit like but because of what it offers that is unique.
Very well said. I'm happy that Snapzu has this strong opinion on "free speech". It will lead to a much healthier website and community. If people want to be hateful and give their honest opinion in a offensive way, they've got the choice to go other places if it's not accepted here.
To further clarify. Opinions can be offensive, and we wouldn't be surprised if unpopular ones offended people on Snapzu at times, because after all nothing is more subjective than an opinion and how it is received. We however have problems with "abuse" and "hate speech", there is a clear difference between that type of content and behaviour.
I'm in no way advocating that anyone be allowed to go around threatening or verbally abusing others throughout the site or to the entire "party" as you so put it. But that is where I think the whole party anology just doesn't fit. This is a private site or party, yes, and ultimately what is and is not allowed here is completely up to the hosts of said party. While I may not agree with some of the rules, I still respect that they are in place. However, this house party is not just occuring in one large convention center area. It has many rooms. I may not like what's occuring in one room down the hall, but if that's the case, i'll just stay out of there. I'll advise others to stay away too through downvotes of any room material that moves its way on up, as i'm sure many others will as well. In this way, things are self regulating. I never saw FPH material on the front page of reddit as it would have never recieved enough upvotes. Hell, I didn't even know it was a thing until after it was shutdown, which shows just how much of an effect its' existance had during its' heyday. What i'm getting at is that personally, even though I may not care for the ideas or opinions of those types of people, I don't see anything wrong with allowing them to create a place of their own to go and speak to other ignorant but like minded individuals.
I never saw FPH material on the front page of reddit
That's because you've never been on /r/all. A lot of posts reached it, because the fph community was pretty big and that not a lot of people who despised the community would go there just to dislike their posts. The problem noticed with fph is that they would annoy a lot of redditors. There are several stories where they would take pics posted on Reddit and post them in /r/fapeoplehate and then link the user who posted the pic to the fph thread. If we're going with the party analogy, it's like having fph in one room, but an unlocked room. People can come and go and spill the hate, which is not what this community wants. Yes, by having these rules, Snapzu are closing their doors to a lot of people. Although, I think the creators of this site would rather have a site who runs just fine with a great community than generating a lot of money while having a somewhat toxic community.
I apologize then, as you're right, I don't often visit /r/all, just the main reddit.com page. You're analogy with the unlocked room makes alot of sense and I can see how that would be problematic and definatley something that this site would want to avoid. I suppose I just wish that the community could figure out some sort of way to allow all mindsets here while at the same time keeping some of the harsher areas quarantined. Also, and I say this with no sarcasm whatsoever, thank you for enlightening me on some of the FPH history. I'd rather be shown to be wrong on an issue and aquire correct information that to continue on misinformed.
I totally understand that point. However, there are some things that can be done to allow these negative groups without hurting others. When I browse censor-ship free forums, whenever I saw some hatepost (which was allowed) it would be met with harsh criticism, and the person would be negative repped into oblivion. Whenever this person commented on anything, people noticed his terrible reputation and never replied to his comments. We can learn something from this. In reddit, these hate groups ran rampant without any punishment, because there is no punishment. If we employ an effective way of the users punishing other users for hateposts, I think we can have a hate-free AND censhorship-free snapzu.
I think the general idea of censorship on a social website such as this is misunderstood. Let me try and explain.
Let's go back to the house party scenario. Let's say as the host I sent out invites to everyone, and with with each invite I left a short note. The note would say that we have a special room in the house specifically set aside to host the sharing and ridiculing the photographs of overweight individuals so that those who want access can all laugh and hate them together. But that's not all, after we have gone through every photo, we then glue the most popular one onto a stick and parade it around the house party all proud of ourselves for being different and better. I'm not done yet... lets say one of those individuals is there, quietly chatting it up with a drink in their hand having a good time, hurting no one, and they see this. Now lets remember, of course this scenario wouldn't happen, because no one in their right mind would show up to a house party where the note says there is a special room set aside for the ridicule and abuse of other people.
Lets think about actual censorship vs removing abusive content and how completely different those two things are. It isn't our role as the host of the party to go around listening-in on conversations and then kicking people out for their legitimate opinions, be it politics or whatever other subject. But if people shack up in the bedroom and start a 10 person hate group to ridicule other people, we are going to put a stop to it. It's really that simple. It's a case by case basis because we're not about to send everyone a 200 page contract on how to behave at a party, it's impossible to foresee every situation, and frankly it isn't our business to try.
I used reddit for around three years and never one saw a fat people hate comment on my feed. Your analogy was going very well until the part about about gluing the photo to the stick and forcing it in everyone's face. The most I ever heard about fph was boogie talking about it on his YouTube channel, or the meta about it being banned.
Edit- someone mentioned r/all below but it's clear that a lot of people here don't get how reddit works. R/all was merely there to show you the highest rated content of the entire website. If you wanted the best party for you, you wouldn't go into r/all because it shows you what is going on in every room in the house... Including the kids room where for year olds are laughing at fart noises and the sex dungeon in the basement. You would use the FrontPage because it is the party you want to be at.
I've seen lots of fat-shaming on reddit, and I wasn't looking for it, not even browsing the /r/all. But it invaded large subs, like AskReddit, and sometimes even in smaller subs people complained aboit being ridiculed. So, no, it wasn't very well contained at all, large parts of the site were affected.
As soon as hate speech is allowed anywhere on a site, the same users that gather there will be browsing the rest of the site, posting and commenting, and the whole site's standards of behaviour and courtesy will be slipping. Why would we want it? There are so many forums on the internet; setting up your own forum takes minutes. Nobody stops haters of any kind from creating their own place, so why let them ruin a perfectly pleasant community?
I've seen fat shaming in that people promoting unhealthy lifestyle choices have been called out on it. People promoting obesity as a good thing should be called on it. I have also seen smoker shaming in that people saying smoking isn't really that bad have been called out on it. I've seen random comments like 'omg you are so fat' come out of nowhere and hate seem those comments downvoted to oblivion. I don't know why you think your user experience is more definitive than mine and think typing "so, no, it's not" is going to convince me otherwise.
Edit: Annnnnd I get downvoted for having a different opinion.
I don't know why you think your user experience is more definitive than mine
I do not think so. You were describing your experience, and I told you about mine, which is different from yours. Which is understandable, reddit is a big and diverse place.
And, for what it's worth, it wasn't me downvoting you.
If you threw a party tomorrow and invited 100 people to your house where everyone can bring a +1 and 10 of those people were racist or threatening going around verbally abusing your other guests would you let this keep going, given that it's your house and all? Or would you want to take the initiative to protect your guests and the party by asking those 10 people to leave for perfectly acceptable reasons? We're not talking about protecting the fundamental freedom of speech here where the government cannot arrest you, hold you or imprison you for the things you say, we are talking about keeping the party going and assuring we do what we can as hosts to eliminate any abusive behaviour that may stem from people wanting to be abusive. Having said that... like a private party at someone's house, we too are a private run website that has a specific set of rules to govern our platform, and those rules need to be followed so that we can keep the party going. We all see the effects of that abusive behaviour on other social networks, we won't let it happen here, and we believe the community wont either.
Well said. I don't mind if the community is a little protected from transforming into a site that projectss hate and allows trolling. I joined SNAPZU not because we need to change it to be more reddit like but because of what it offers that is unique.
Very well said. I'm happy that Snapzu has this strong opinion on "free speech". It will lead to a much healthier website and community. If people want to be hateful and give their honest opinion in a offensive way, they've got the choice to go other places if it's not accepted here.
To further clarify. Opinions can be offensive, and we wouldn't be surprised if unpopular ones offended people on Snapzu at times, because after all nothing is more subjective than an opinion and how it is received. We however have problems with "abuse" and "hate speech", there is a clear difference between that type of content and behaviour.
I'm perfectly fine with that :)
It's pretty much the way "Free" speech works in France.
I'm in no way advocating that anyone be allowed to go around threatening or verbally abusing others throughout the site or to the entire "party" as you so put it. But that is where I think the whole party anology just doesn't fit. This is a private site or party, yes, and ultimately what is and is not allowed here is completely up to the hosts of said party. While I may not agree with some of the rules, I still respect that they are in place. However, this house party is not just occuring in one large convention center area. It has many rooms. I may not like what's occuring in one room down the hall, but if that's the case, i'll just stay out of there. I'll advise others to stay away too through downvotes of any room material that moves its way on up, as i'm sure many others will as well. In this way, things are self regulating. I never saw FPH material on the front page of reddit as it would have never recieved enough upvotes. Hell, I didn't even know it was a thing until after it was shutdown, which shows just how much of an effect its' existance had during its' heyday. What i'm getting at is that personally, even though I may not care for the ideas or opinions of those types of people, I don't see anything wrong with allowing them to create a place of their own to go and speak to other ignorant but like minded individuals.
That's because you've never been on /r/all. A lot of posts reached it, because the fph community was pretty big and that not a lot of people who despised the community would go there just to dislike their posts. The problem noticed with fph is that they would annoy a lot of redditors. There are several stories where they would take pics posted on Reddit and post them in /r/fapeoplehate and then link the user who posted the pic to the fph thread. If we're going with the party analogy, it's like having fph in one room, but an unlocked room. People can come and go and spill the hate, which is not what this community wants. Yes, by having these rules, Snapzu are closing their doors to a lot of people. Although, I think the creators of this site would rather have a site who runs just fine with a great community than generating a lot of money while having a somewhat toxic community.
I apologize then, as you're right, I don't often visit /r/all, just the main reddit.com page. You're analogy with the unlocked room makes alot of sense and I can see how that would be problematic and definatley something that this site would want to avoid. I suppose I just wish that the community could figure out some sort of way to allow all mindsets here while at the same time keeping some of the harsher areas quarantined. Also, and I say this with no sarcasm whatsoever, thank you for enlightening me on some of the FPH history. I'd rather be shown to be wrong on an issue and aquire correct information that to continue on misinformed.
Wow, it's not on Reddit that I ever had a civilized argument like that. Kudos to you for being able to change your perspective despite the pride.
This is not reddit and it is time to move on.
I totally understand that point. However, there are some things that can be done to allow these negative groups without hurting others. When I browse censor-ship free forums, whenever I saw some hatepost (which was allowed) it would be met with harsh criticism, and the person would be negative repped into oblivion. Whenever this person commented on anything, people noticed his terrible reputation and never replied to his comments. We can learn something from this. In reddit, these hate groups ran rampant without any punishment, because there is no punishment. If we employ an effective way of the users punishing other users for hateposts, I think we can have a hate-free AND censhorship-free snapzu.
I think the general idea of censorship on a social website such as this is misunderstood. Let me try and explain.
Let's go back to the house party scenario. Let's say as the host I sent out invites to everyone, and with with each invite I left a short note. The note would say that we have a special room in the house specifically set aside to host the sharing and ridiculing the photographs of overweight individuals so that those who want access can all laugh and hate them together. But that's not all, after we have gone through every photo, we then glue the most popular one onto a stick and parade it around the house party all proud of ourselves for being different and better. I'm not done yet... lets say one of those individuals is there, quietly chatting it up with a drink in their hand having a good time, hurting no one, and they see this. Now lets remember, of course this scenario wouldn't happen, because no one in their right mind would show up to a house party where the note says there is a special room set aside for the ridicule and abuse of other people.
Lets think about actual censorship vs removing abusive content and how completely different those two things are. It isn't our role as the host of the party to go around listening-in on conversations and then kicking people out for their legitimate opinions, be it politics or whatever other subject. But if people shack up in the bedroom and start a 10 person hate group to ridicule other people, we are going to put a stop to it. It's really that simple. It's a case by case basis because we're not about to send everyone a 200 page contract on how to behave at a party, it's impossible to foresee every situation, and frankly it isn't our business to try.
I used reddit for around three years and never one saw a fat people hate comment on my feed. Your analogy was going very well until the part about about gluing the photo to the stick and forcing it in everyone's face. The most I ever heard about fph was boogie talking about it on his YouTube channel, or the meta about it being banned.
Edit- someone mentioned r/all below but it's clear that a lot of people here don't get how reddit works. R/all was merely there to show you the highest rated content of the entire website. If you wanted the best party for you, you wouldn't go into r/all because it shows you what is going on in every room in the house... Including the kids room where for year olds are laughing at fart noises and the sex dungeon in the basement. You would use the FrontPage because it is the party you want to be at.
I've seen lots of fat-shaming on reddit, and I wasn't looking for it, not even browsing the /r/all. But it invaded large subs, like AskReddit, and sometimes even in smaller subs people complained aboit being ridiculed. So, no, it wasn't very well contained at all, large parts of the site were affected.
As soon as hate speech is allowed anywhere on a site, the same users that gather there will be browsing the rest of the site, posting and commenting, and the whole site's standards of behaviour and courtesy will be slipping. Why would we want it? There are so many forums on the internet; setting up your own forum takes minutes. Nobody stops haters of any kind from creating their own place, so why let them ruin a perfectly pleasant community?
I've seen fat shaming in that people promoting unhealthy lifestyle choices have been called out on it. People promoting obesity as a good thing should be called on it. I have also seen smoker shaming in that people saying smoking isn't really that bad have been called out on it. I've seen random comments like 'omg you are so fat' come out of nowhere and hate seem those comments downvoted to oblivion. I don't know why you think your user experience is more definitive than mine and think typing "so, no, it's not" is going to convince me otherwise.
Edit: Annnnnd I get downvoted for having a different opinion.
I do not think so. You were describing your experience, and I told you about mine, which is different from yours. Which is understandable, reddit is a big and diverse place.
And, for what it's worth, it wasn't me downvoting you.