I know it was discussed in some places and I get that we can't ditch the downvoting button, but can't we change the appearance of it? I think what a down arrow represents could be misconstrued on face value; people may think it is a disagree button while some sort of other flag type button could be seen otherwise.
So the flags would be in the same place in your reputation algorithm as the downvote button would be but there should be less confusion about its use. Just an idea.
I know it was discussed in some places and I get that we can't ditch the downvoting button, but can't we change the appearance of it?
Hmm...how would people react if up and down arrows were replaced by + and x symbols to represent appropriate versus inappropriate content? I'm just brainstorming here, but one aspect about it that appeals to me is the way it would differentiate voting on this site from others.
Yes, I think while having more forced information out there about a downvoting button will help a bit... I think we have to realize that those of us having this discussion are the users that really care. A majority of people probably ignore a lot of information given to them and once again... a down arrow has an implied connotation that people who did not read about the function of the button will mess up.
I think this is a really great solution! Keeps the purpose of the buttons of helping the moderators and admin not have too much work but still to swamp them, yet moves away from the agree, disagree mindset.
Not sure if it is easy to do or not, but I would maybe add putting them on opposite sides of the post to mentally seperate the association with each other and hence furthering them being thought as opposites, but that's just a small added thought..
Edit: Oops, meant to comment on /u/spaceghoti 's post haha
I was originally thinking of leaving the up arrow and just making (-) be there for "down vote". My go-to instinct was for a "off topic" and I thought of a dash, but your idea of + and x makes a lot of sense and the visual appearance of it is....pleasant.
To me, if I was a new user and didn't know about what the buttons did, it would feel like an "add content" button and "remove content" button. I think all buttons with the "plus" icon should be reserved for adding content and not "up voting" something.
I believe the up vote symbol should never change. It has been ingrained in most web users minds that up vote means agreement, positivity, appropriateness. It's like if Microsoft decided that the action for closing windows was "-" instead of "x". That is just taking away from decades of user experience.
However, if our down voting is different in that it is intended to remove or discourage inappropriate content, then I think it would be okay for a symbol change specifically for the down vote button. Maybe a flag icon, as this is associated with bringing attention to, informing others of something, or saying watch out.
Icon changes are tough and make a gigantic impact. I'm don't think I'm on board for changing either one.
I believe the up vote symbol should never change. It has been ingrained in most web users minds that up vote means agreement, positivity, appropriateness. It's like if Microsoft decided that the action for closing windows was "-" instead of "x". That is just taking away from decades of user experience.
That's my point. The fact that these symbols are so ingrained in so many people's minds is precisely why I suggest it. We're not Microsoft, just as we're not Reddit or voat or any other site with a voting system. Reputation is not karma or any of the other words used to describe the overall effects of voting. Changing both symbols (or even just one) would help to break that association and allow us to retrain new users who come here.
I'm not married to the idea, I simply throw it out there as a suggestion for how to break the habit of using upvotes or downvotes as proxy for whether or not you agree.
To your last point: no worries, it's discussion and we're all brainstorming! I'm just trying to give counterarguments to help think through all aspects of an idea. I don't know the answers.
Back to topic: I think it's possible that a change to the down vote button could work, since our ideology behind the action is different. But for an up vote, a symbol change will end up confusing users (old and new), and leave a bad impression on the usability of the site, in my opinion.
Also, perhaps not putting them right next to each other would be a good change. When you have UP and DOWN you assume that one is the opposite of the other. Same with +/-. But if there's UP button in one corner and "INAPPROPRIATE" in another (kind of like how some "REPORT" buttons are) it might reduce unwarranted downvotes.
I really like this idea. I think the flag would probably deter new users from mass using it, as most new users lately (myself included) are coming from Reddit, where we're used to the down arrow being used for a different purpose than it is here. By changing the arrow to the flag, you'd be breaking the association between it and new users are probably more likely not to use it unless warranted.
This is interesting, because I've been hearing that the purpose of Reddit's downvote button is the same as Snapzu but with the sheer userbase that Reddit has the downvote's function became bastardized over time.
This could easily happen here at Snapzu with the influx of members.
Exactly what I was about to say. The reddiquette essentially is the same as it is here, but over time, the people started using it as a disagree button, even though a lot of subs discourage it a lot.
Although it never asked for a reason to be given, which I believe adds the extra question to thenuser as to whether they want to do this. Plus with it being the exact opposite symbol to the upvote it's not hard to imagine how the association developed.
Although is it possible to add, "don't like comment" as a reason. If they click this it lights up their button and does nothing. Haha nah just teasing :P
Reddit's downvote serves the exact same purpose as Snapzu's. It has, as you said, been bastardized to being a "you suck" button, essentially. Still occasionally used for "off topic" marker, but overall just crap.
Although it never asked for a reason to be given, which I believe adds the extra question to the user as to whether they want to do this. Plus with it being the exact opposite symbol to the upvote it's not hard to imagine how the association developed.
Like you said, I think changing the down arrow to a Flag symbol makes the most sense. A down arrow really does connote disapproval or disagreement, whereas a Flag would convey more of a "this is needlessly offensive" or "this is spam" message.
I think a flag would be good too, but maybe it's because I can't think of anything else lol. But ultimately I think we should really consider how much effect a superficial adjustment will have, I think it's big.
I think that brings a level of dishonesty that some may feel js what they came here to avoid. I mean it's something I thought of as well but I then thought it may be unpopular for that reason. Who knows maybe I'm wrong :P
Thanks for the update.
I know it was discussed in some places and I get that we can't ditch the downvoting button, but can't we change the appearance of it? I think what a down arrow represents could be misconstrued on face value; people may think it is a disagree button while some sort of other flag type button could be seen otherwise.
So the flags would be in the same place in your reputation algorithm as the downvote button would be but there should be less confusion about its use. Just an idea.
Hmm...how would people react if up and down arrows were replaced by + and x symbols to represent appropriate versus inappropriate content? I'm just brainstorming here, but one aspect about it that appeals to me is the way it would differentiate voting on this site from others.
It's a really really good idea. Changing the signs would help the mentality I think.
Yes, I think while having more forced information out there about a downvoting button will help a bit... I think we have to realize that those of us having this discussion are the users that really care. A majority of people probably ignore a lot of information given to them and once again... a down arrow has an implied connotation that people who did not read about the function of the button will mess up.
Yep. So additional information in the prologue, downvote reasons on everything and a change of graphics would be the best course of actions I think.
I think this is a really great solution! Keeps the purpose of the buttons of helping the moderators and admin not have too much work but still to swamp them, yet moves away from the agree, disagree mindset.
Not sure if it is easy to do or not, but I would maybe add putting them on opposite sides of the post to mentally seperate the association with each other and hence furthering them being thought as opposites, but that's just a small added thought..
Edit: Oops, meant to comment on /u/spaceghoti 's post haha
Hahaha well it's still valid to my own comment anyhow :)
I was originally thinking of leaving the up arrow and just making (-) be there for "down vote". My go-to instinct was for a "off topic" and I thought of a dash, but your idea of + and x makes a lot of sense and the visual appearance of it is....pleasant.
To me, if I was a new user and didn't know about what the buttons did, it would feel like an "add content" button and "remove content" button. I think all buttons with the "plus" icon should be reserved for adding content and not "up voting" something.
I believe the up vote symbol should never change. It has been ingrained in most web users minds that up vote means agreement, positivity, appropriateness. It's like if Microsoft decided that the action for closing windows was "-" instead of "x". That is just taking away from decades of user experience.
However, if our down voting is different in that it is intended to remove or discourage inappropriate content, then I think it would be okay for a symbol change specifically for the down vote button. Maybe a flag icon, as this is associated with bringing attention to, informing others of something, or saying watch out.
Icon changes are tough and make a gigantic impact. I'm don't think I'm on board for changing either one.
That's my point. The fact that these symbols are so ingrained in so many people's minds is precisely why I suggest it. We're not Microsoft, just as we're not Reddit or voat or any other site with a voting system. Reputation is not karma or any of the other words used to describe the overall effects of voting. Changing both symbols (or even just one) would help to break that association and allow us to retrain new users who come here.
I'm not married to the idea, I simply throw it out there as a suggestion for how to break the habit of using upvotes or downvotes as proxy for whether or not you agree.
To your last point: no worries, it's discussion and we're all brainstorming! I'm just trying to give counterarguments to help think through all aspects of an idea. I don't know the answers.
Back to topic: I think it's possible that a change to the down vote button could work, since our ideology behind the action is different. But for an up vote, a symbol change will end up confusing users (old and new), and leave a bad impression on the usability of the site, in my opinion.
Also, perhaps not putting them right next to each other would be a good change. When you have UP and DOWN you assume that one is the opposite of the other. Same with +/-. But if there's UP button in one corner and "INAPPROPRIATE" in another (kind of like how some "REPORT" buttons are) it might reduce unwarranted downvotes.
I really like this idea. I think the flag would probably deter new users from mass using it, as most new users lately (myself included) are coming from Reddit, where we're used to the down arrow being used for a different purpose than it is here. By changing the arrow to the flag, you'd be breaking the association between it and new users are probably more likely not to use it unless warranted.
This is interesting, because I've been hearing that the purpose of Reddit's downvote button is the same as Snapzu but with the sheer userbase that Reddit has the downvote's function became bastardized over time.
This could easily happen here at Snapzu with the influx of members.
Exactly what I was about to say. The reddiquette essentially is the same as it is here, but over time, the people started using it as a disagree button, even though a lot of subs discourage it a lot.
Although it never asked for a reason to be given, which I believe adds the extra question to thenuser as to whether they want to do this. Plus with it being the exact opposite symbol to the upvote it's not hard to imagine how the association developed.
Although is it possible to add, "don't like comment" as a reason. If they click this it lights up their button and does nothing. Haha nah just teasing :P
Reddit's downvote serves the exact same purpose as Snapzu's. It has, as you said, been bastardized to being a "you suck" button, essentially. Still occasionally used for "off topic" marker, but overall just crap.
Although it never asked for a reason to be given, which I believe adds the extra question to the user as to whether they want to do this. Plus with it being the exact opposite symbol to the upvote it's not hard to imagine how the association developed.
Haha, you have a quite way with words. I agree, and haven't heard it put so well.
Reddit's downvote is the same function, in principal. Not in practice, though.
Like you said, I think changing the down arrow to a Flag symbol makes the most sense. A down arrow really does connote disapproval or disagreement, whereas a Flag would convey more of a "this is needlessly offensive" or "this is spam" message.
I think a flag would be good too, but maybe it's because I can't think of anything else lol. But ultimately I think we should really consider how much effect a superficial adjustment will have, I think it's big.
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