First of all, welcome to Snapzu and to /t/women! :)
I was also bothered by the fact that I had to gender identify upon signing up. I do think there should be a non-gendered option for those who feel more comfortable not disclosing gender. This has actually been brought up very casually here, so that's apparently the current stance of the Snapzu team. That could change in the future if more people request a non-gendered option.
As for what it's like being a woman here, I have had no problem at all. Everyone has been very respectful and welcoming, which was a pleasant surprise. I was a bit stunned by how concerned I was when presented with the requirement to disclose my gender here. I had not thought I would feel so worried about it. I think that's a testament to the fact that parts of the web can be a scary place for women, and even though I had always thought it wasn't something that affected me deeply, my reservations implied otherwise. The good new is that, so far at least, everyone here has been great. My gender has never been an issue.
It's worth noting that the Snapzu user-base is, or at least appears to be, overwhelmingly male. I have mentioned this elsewhere on the site. I don't have exact figures, but if you browse new followers of any Snapzu member, the ratio of self identified males to females is about 7:1, and possibly even more skewed towards males than that. Make of that what you will. It's possible that it'll even out over time.
/u/bogdan and /u/LacquerCritic have a good point that your gendered avatar is only visible on your profile page, so it's not totally obvious who is what gender unless you intentionally check. I'm not in the habit of checking, and I doubt many people are. I noticed the gender discrepancy by looking at my new followers, but I don't check up on someone I'm speaking to.
Thanks for your reply :-) There have been quite a few studies done recently on the experience of a female-gendered online presence as compared to that of a neutral or male gendered one, which have been fascinating (and pretty depressing). It is certainly something I've experienced as I moved from a much more feminine username to what is, to me, a neutral name but which is apparently coded male to many because it's physics based. Especially in conversations about more intellectual stuff - politics, science, etc - I am not condescended to nearly as often under this name.
I am beginning to feel more comfortable speaking about controversial subjects outside of my immediate, closed friendship group. This change is almost completely down to using a different name, because I was put off years ago by how people acted towards me when I was clearly female online. I was lucky that this was before the rape/murder threats became so common, so I didn't have to deal with that, but the slurs ('You stupid bitch', etc) and the more 'benign' forms of condescension were bad enough. Like when I would have written posts using specific terms and insight which indicate a higher level of familiarity with a complex subject, and have multiple replies from men who seemed to want to take me under their wing and teach me stuff. Which would be fine, if they were at my level or above me, but they insisted on explaining in tiny words the very basics of the field and expecting me to be super grateful for it. I'm always grateful for new knowledge, for people sharing their experience and expertise, but these kinds of people just seemed to see a woman talking about a 'man' subject and assumed I was out of my depth. There was also always the assumption that I must be coming from a place of irrational emotion instead of logical analysis, which was infuriating. Is infuriating, because that still happens.
With the neutral name, though, I've been finding my voice a bit more. It's funny, because I'm known among my friends for being one of the most outspoken and ranty people there, especially in person, but being opinionated online was just exhausting until I changed my username. So I was really glad to see /u/bogdan's note that it isn't clear unless you go to the profile, which is something I had worried about. I just really didn't feel up to going back to keeping my mouth shut, and didn't want to be dishonest and say I was male, either (although I totally understand why many women do).
As for the ratio, I would obviously prefer a more diverse community, but I'm so, so used to existing in male-dominated spaces (theoretical physics, gaming, disability activism, politics) that it's pretty much just what I expect. I totally know what you mean about being surprised at the concern - I've been aware of the issues surrounding women online for years, and thought I knew where I was with that, but suddenly having to make that choice with a place connected (now) to the Reddit community really sharpened the focus for me.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I have never had someone be condescending because of my user name. I work in a male dominated field and have only once felt brushed off because I was a woman. I put an end to that quickly. On another note, I think the biggest surge of people to hit at once are here already. Others will trickle in. If this community stands by its values and culture, they will learn to deal with it or leave. Who needs toxic people around anyway.
I really hope that it plays out like that. I've already noticed the 'but free speech!' people in the lounge, and had to put my phone down so I didn't engage. It never, ever ends well with that particular group of people, so I avoid it when possible. I saw someone saying something like, 'keep the Reddit spirit alive!' and was glad that some people had pointed out that people came to Snapzu to avoid the 'Reddit spirit', which is often not something to be proud of. Many are saying that they left because Reddit had got too SJWish, and wanted this to be a less censorious place, when there are quite a lot of us who think that active moderation creates a more free space than just unfettered 'say whatever you want because free speech' rules, which just mean that the shoutiest, meanest people get prominence and everyone else sees a place where they do not belong, so don't speak up.
It has so many great points, so much knowledge and kindness and worthwhile discussion, but the nature of a platform like that means that there are some really dark aspects to it, and the overriding controlling group of users all come from a specific demographic which has so rarely experienced active silencing, so think that not being able to post how much they hate [x] group of people on a privately owned site is a free speech violation.
I hope that they trickle off to voat, or back to Reddit, or even that they stay here and abide by the house rules and add to the conversation. That would be brilliant (if unlikely).
It's a shame that gender matters so much to some even just in a username. It is super frustrating when people treat you like a child that needs guidance just because you're a women, and it's even more depressing that that's one of the less hurtful behaviors you can encounter trying to participate online. If you'd like to make a snap linking to some of the studies you mentioned about online gendering I, and I'm sure others, would be interested in reading them. It's a fascinating and important subject.
I'm also very ranty and outspoken IRL, and I know exactly what you're saying about it just being exhausting online. It had gotten to the point where I would rather not participate, and I was thinking it would be the same here on Snapzu, but somehow I've come out of my shell. I think the level of discourse is much more manageable here, at least for now. I considered identifying as male as well, but I then I thought if I can't participate in a space as a woman and still be respected, do I really want to be there at all? IDK. Thankfully, it hasn't been an issue.
I'm very glad to have you here and that you're comfortable speaking your mind. I hope you stick around! :)
I also think that there should be a non gendered version, it would do two good things: make some women feel safer and include those who do not fit in the traditional male/female dichomoty. It's an easy thing to overlook though. When I signed up, I didn't even think of it. I bet it's what happened when the registration page was designed. And now that it's been pointed out, I'm sure it will be changed.
This! It would be awesome if there was a third option for non-binary people (and people who just don't want to be gendered online). So far, I actually feel okay being a woman here and actually speaking, which can be rare in online spaces.
As Snapzu grows, I think the presence and growth of tribes that are oriented towards women will also help encourage women to join. Before I decided to sign up. I went looking through the tribe list - only once I found /t/women and /t/makeup did I decide that I wanted to invest time in Snapzu. Of course, not all women are interested in such tribes, and of course some men will be interested in these tribes, but when I found other sites that only mentioned science/technology/news, I sort of figured that I wouldn't want to spend as much time there since there were only some of my interests discussed there.
Well, I couldn't find one using the search function, so I thought I'd try making a tribe - /t/nailfanatics (obviously empty at the moment, I'll be finding some snaps very quick though!)
That's a good point about needing more tribes that are oriented towards women, and I'm glad you started /t/nailfanatics! I started /t/knitting which tends to be something that women have more interest in than men. There is also /t/fashion, /t/style, and /t/beauty which might appeal more to women. If you want to adopt an existing tribe, and the cheif has been inactive for 3 months or more, you can put in a request with the Snapzu team to reclaim that tribe. It's not nessissary to be a chief to be active in a tribe, but I thought I'd mention it since some tribes have been abandon by their chiefs.
Speaking of which,am I the only one who wants this community to be better than Reddit's TwoXChromosomes?(which is basically a heavily polarized battleground,last time I checked).
I actually preferred TrollXChromosomes, but it is a silly place with mostly advice animals. ;)
I do think a lot of the issues with TwoXChromosomes might be a matter of the size of the community, as /u/LacquerCritic mentioned. I guess we'll see what happens as this community grows, and it would be great if it could continue to be a place where there isn't so much strife.
For the time being, I think the size of Snapzu and /t/women tribe will prevent that from happening. As Snapzu grows it'll be more of an issue, because I think that battleground came about as a result of defensiveness, with seemingly every group with strong opinions feeling that their opinions weren't being given due respect in light of the other groups. I'm not sure what's the best way to prevent that kind of atmosphere in which so many users are constantly on the defense. (I'll also note that I wasn't a fan of the frequency with which comments were posted asking why a women's forum wasn't talking about men, so I am biased a bit in that direction.)
First of all, welcome to Snapzu and to /t/women! :)
I was also bothered by the fact that I had to gender identify upon signing up. I do think there should be a non-gendered option for those who feel more comfortable not disclosing gender. This has actually been brought up very casually here, so that's apparently the current stance of the Snapzu team. That could change in the future if more people request a non-gendered option.
As for what it's like being a woman here, I have had no problem at all. Everyone has been very respectful and welcoming, which was a pleasant surprise. I was a bit stunned by how concerned I was when presented with the requirement to disclose my gender here. I had not thought I would feel so worried about it. I think that's a testament to the fact that parts of the web can be a scary place for women, and even though I had always thought it wasn't something that affected me deeply, my reservations implied otherwise. The good new is that, so far at least, everyone here has been great. My gender has never been an issue.
It's worth noting that the Snapzu user-base is, or at least appears to be, overwhelmingly male. I have mentioned this elsewhere on the site. I don't have exact figures, but if you browse new followers of any Snapzu member, the ratio of self identified males to females is about 7:1, and possibly even more skewed towards males than that. Make of that what you will. It's possible that it'll even out over time.
/u/bogdan and /u/LacquerCritic have a good point that your gendered avatar is only visible on your profile page, so it's not totally obvious who is what gender unless you intentionally check. I'm not in the habit of checking, and I doubt many people are. I noticed the gender discrepancy by looking at my new followers, but I don't check up on someone I'm speaking to.
Again, welcome! Make yourself at home! :)
Thanks for your reply :-) There have been quite a few studies done recently on the experience of a female-gendered online presence as compared to that of a neutral or male gendered one, which have been fascinating (and pretty depressing). It is certainly something I've experienced as I moved from a much more feminine username to what is, to me, a neutral name but which is apparently coded male to many because it's physics based. Especially in conversations about more intellectual stuff - politics, science, etc - I am not condescended to nearly as often under this name.
I am beginning to feel more comfortable speaking about controversial subjects outside of my immediate, closed friendship group. This change is almost completely down to using a different name, because I was put off years ago by how people acted towards me when I was clearly female online. I was lucky that this was before the rape/murder threats became so common, so I didn't have to deal with that, but the slurs ('You stupid bitch', etc) and the more 'benign' forms of condescension were bad enough. Like when I would have written posts using specific terms and insight which indicate a higher level of familiarity with a complex subject, and have multiple replies from men who seemed to want to take me under their wing and teach me stuff. Which would be fine, if they were at my level or above me, but they insisted on explaining in tiny words the very basics of the field and expecting me to be super grateful for it. I'm always grateful for new knowledge, for people sharing their experience and expertise, but these kinds of people just seemed to see a woman talking about a 'man' subject and assumed I was out of my depth. There was also always the assumption that I must be coming from a place of irrational emotion instead of logical analysis, which was infuriating. Is infuriating, because that still happens.
With the neutral name, though, I've been finding my voice a bit more. It's funny, because I'm known among my friends for being one of the most outspoken and ranty people there, especially in person, but being opinionated online was just exhausting until I changed my username. So I was really glad to see /u/bogdan's note that it isn't clear unless you go to the profile, which is something I had worried about. I just really didn't feel up to going back to keeping my mouth shut, and didn't want to be dishonest and say I was male, either (although I totally understand why many women do).
As for the ratio, I would obviously prefer a more diverse community, but I'm so, so used to existing in male-dominated spaces (theoretical physics, gaming, disability activism, politics) that it's pretty much just what I expect. I totally know what you mean about being surprised at the concern - I've been aware of the issues surrounding women online for years, and thought I knew where I was with that, but suddenly having to make that choice with a place connected (now) to the Reddit community really sharpened the focus for me.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I have never had someone be condescending because of my user name. I work in a male dominated field and have only once felt brushed off because I was a woman. I put an end to that quickly. On another note, I think the biggest surge of people to hit at once are here already. Others will trickle in. If this community stands by its values and culture, they will learn to deal with it or leave. Who needs toxic people around anyway.
I really hope that it plays out like that. I've already noticed the 'but free speech!' people in the lounge, and had to put my phone down so I didn't engage. It never, ever ends well with that particular group of people, so I avoid it when possible. I saw someone saying something like, 'keep the Reddit spirit alive!' and was glad that some people had pointed out that people came to Snapzu to avoid the 'Reddit spirit', which is often not something to be proud of. Many are saying that they left because Reddit had got too SJWish, and wanted this to be a less censorious place, when there are quite a lot of us who think that active moderation creates a more free space than just unfettered 'say whatever you want because free speech' rules, which just mean that the shoutiest, meanest people get prominence and everyone else sees a place where they do not belong, so don't speak up.
It has so many great points, so much knowledge and kindness and worthwhile discussion, but the nature of a platform like that means that there are some really dark aspects to it, and the overriding controlling group of users all come from a specific demographic which has so rarely experienced active silencing, so think that not being able to post how much they hate [x] group of people on a privately owned site is a free speech violation.
I hope that they trickle off to voat, or back to Reddit, or even that they stay here and abide by the house rules and add to the conversation. That would be brilliant (if unlikely).
It's a shame that gender matters so much to some even just in a username. It is super frustrating when people treat you like a child that needs guidance just because you're a women, and it's even more depressing that that's one of the less hurtful behaviors you can encounter trying to participate online. If you'd like to make a snap linking to some of the studies you mentioned about online gendering I, and I'm sure others, would be interested in reading them. It's a fascinating and important subject.
I'm also very ranty and outspoken IRL, and I know exactly what you're saying about it just being exhausting online. It had gotten to the point where I would rather not participate, and I was thinking it would be the same here on Snapzu, but somehow I've come out of my shell. I think the level of discourse is much more manageable here, at least for now. I considered identifying as male as well, but I then I thought if I can't participate in a space as a woman and still be respected, do I really want to be there at all? IDK. Thankfully, it hasn't been an issue.
I'm very glad to have you here and that you're comfortable speaking your mind. I hope you stick around! :)
I also think that there should be a non gendered version, it would do two good things: make some women feel safer and include those who do not fit in the traditional male/female dichomoty. It's an easy thing to overlook though. When I signed up, I didn't even think of it. I bet it's what happened when the registration page was designed. And now that it's been pointed out, I'm sure it will be changed.
This! It would be awesome if there was a third option for non-binary people (and people who just don't want to be gendered online). So far, I actually feel okay being a woman here and actually speaking, which can be rare in online spaces.
As Snapzu grows, I think the presence and growth of tribes that are oriented towards women will also help encourage women to join. Before I decided to sign up. I went looking through the tribe list - only once I found /t/women and /t/makeup did I decide that I wanted to invest time in Snapzu. Of course, not all women are interested in such tribes, and of course some men will be interested in these tribes, but when I found other sites that only mentioned science/technology/news, I sort of figured that I wouldn't want to spend as much time there since there were only some of my interests discussed there.
Judging from your username... I don't suppose you know whether there's a nail art tribe yet?
I searched and didn't find one, so I thought I'd make a tribe and see what happens! /t/nailfanatics
I am so there once there is one.
Well, I couldn't find one using the search function, so I thought I'd try making a tribe - /t/nailfanatics (obviously empty at the moment, I'll be finding some snaps very quick though!)
Awesome! I'll try to contribute, too!
Thank you! Welcome to the very little club, here are your honorary snacks, etc. :)
That's a good point about needing more tribes that are oriented towards women, and I'm glad you started /t/nailfanatics! I started /t/knitting which tends to be something that women have more interest in than men. There is also /t/fashion, /t/style, and /t/beauty which might appeal more to women. If you want to adopt an existing tribe, and the cheif has been inactive for 3 months or more, you can put in a request with the Snapzu team to reclaim that tribe. It's not nessissary to be a chief to be active in a tribe, but I thought I'd mention it since some tribes have been abandon by their chiefs.
Speaking of which,am I the only one who wants this community to be better than Reddit's TwoXChromosomes?(which is basically a heavily polarized battleground,last time I checked).
I actually preferred TrollXChromosomes, but it is a silly place with mostly advice animals. ;)
I do think a lot of the issues with TwoXChromosomes might be a matter of the size of the community, as /u/LacquerCritic mentioned. I guess we'll see what happens as this community grows, and it would be great if it could continue to be a place where there isn't so much strife.
For the time being, I think the size of Snapzu and /t/women tribe will prevent that from happening. As Snapzu grows it'll be more of an issue, because I think that battleground came about as a result of defensiveness, with seemingly every group with strong opinions feeling that their opinions weren't being given due respect in light of the other groups. I'm not sure what's the best way to prevent that kind of atmosphere in which so many users are constantly on the defense. (I'll also note that I wasn't a fan of the frequency with which comments were posted asking why a women's forum wasn't talking about men, so I am biased a bit in that direction.)
Me too here!
Women,like men.talk about whatever they want.
Haha! So true... sigh