I don't really care for Trump nor would I ever want to see him elected President, but after reading what he said, I don't really see the issue here:
"I like Mexico. I love the Mexican people. I do business with the Mexican people, but you have people coming through the border that are from all over. And they're bad. They're really bad," he said. "You have people coming in, and I'm not just saying Mexicans, I'm talking about people that are from all over that are killers and rapists and they're coming into this country.”Source
What is not true about the above statment? What is so offensive or racist about it? He specifically says, "they're coming from all over", and, "I'm not just saying Mexicans". I mean think about it, anyone who wants in for any sort of nefarious reason can be smuggled by drug cartels up through Mexico and across the border with relative ease. Just an example, here's a quote from a border patrol agent about the whole issue:
“It’s frustrating for all of us and there’s no doubt that we have OTMs [Other Than Mexicans] coming from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia and other parts of the world that we are very concerned with — these guys won’t be turning themselves into Border Patrol like the family units or children. I expect we’ll see more the OTMs of special interest this year and next, now that they know they can get in easier and they won’t be turned back home.”Source
Now I highly doubt that people are coming from Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, ect.... to make a better life and appreciate America and what not. So what I don't understand is why is everyone out for blood over comments that are for the most part, pretty damn factual. I mean I understand the backlash in the news as theres always motivating factors on spinning a story in one direction or another, but why the hell is the general public buying into this bullshit? Trump is no saint, but he didn't exactly call for racial genocide either. He simply told the truth.
So I think you left out some very important context on those quotes that lead to the outrage.
When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.
This leaves out that really, most of the immigrates coming over illegally probably aren't bad people. He implied that all Mexican's that come over are bad people. He also implies that Mexico is sending them over.
His biggest failure was his wording and then his double down. Clamming that the Mexican government pressured Univision to drop it's contract. He might have had some fair points, but they got lost on delivery and he refused to acknowledge his mistake.
I posted that quote as opposed to the former because it was a reiteration of his stance that he had stated shortly after and one that he still seemed to be receiving just as much flak for. I apologize if it came off as misleading in any way as that was not my intention. I was simply trying to post the view he held that seemed to be causing this uproar. I agree with you 100 percent that his delivery was atrocious and seems to be at the root of the problem here. Obviously there is a problem with crime among some of the immigrant population, aside from the crime of coming here illegally, but to paint the majority as thugs and rapists seems like a bit of a misstep. However, the issue I still hold with the backlash he's receiving is that while the initial comments may have come off as a bit harsh, he did further clarify his statement and I believe that is where the outrage should have ceased. His delivery was off, we've all had those moments. It's no reason to crucify someone. As I said before, I don't even like Trump. But this whole situation comes across as outrage for the sake outrage.
Ok I seemed to have missed that reiteration. I saw a clip of him talking several days later (on fox I think?) where he stated something to the effect of "x% of women are raped crossing the boarder and the rapist have o be coming from somewhere". This is a very poor wording of his quote, so take it with a grain of salt, but he was again implying that a large percentage of the immigrates are criminals. I think this has been blown out of proportion but I really think he is also feeding it. It seems like he will clarify some and then backtrack back to the former statement. I almost think he is doing it on purpose, but I would have no idea what his goal would be. I don't think he is a viable candidate period. I don't think he understands politics, the media, or public relations.
* I don't think he understands politics, the media, or public relations.*
Absolutely, I think you hit the nail on the head. He strikes me as an out of touch old businessman who doesn't really have any business running the country. I haven't watched any video on the subject, have just been sticking to reading his quotes, so I missed the one you mentioned about the women being raped and what not. I would like to believe that he is wrong, and since I don't have any hard numbers on the issue in front of me, i'd have to give the immigrants the benefit of the doubt which is really what he should have done as well. Again though, i'm not even sure if that's really waht he meant at this point or if he just poorly worded it as his fumbling is causing it all just criss cross into this giant mess. I know how politically correct and sensitive everyone is in this day and age and I still believe this is a major contributing factor, however there's no denying that he is also at fault in this whole ordeal as anyone running for high office needs to be able to convey their messages in a clear and concise manner, and than stick by said messages when pushed on the issue.
It's interesting-really when you read what he is saying. He's arguing for better national security at the borders. He certainly did commit some gaffes, but his message is one trying to protect Americans from crime (Maybe some spillover from the drug war in Northern Mexico).
But it's a politician, so who knows his end goal anyway.
I heard a really interesting interview with a former president of Mexico on a podcast, I think it may have been Freakonomics, where he basically said flat out that his primary goal had been to knock down as many borders as possible between the North American nations, and that in fact there was a deal seriously in the works to allow for much greater economic permeability (for both money and labor) at the Mexico-US border before 9/11 totally redirected the US government's focus.
That has no bearing on whether what he said was racist, but it might explain which Mexican businesses don't like it and may try to spin it that way; if this was a thing that was seriously in the works as the former president said, there may be a lot of powerful people in Mexico who are kind of upset that it got put on indefinite hold.
"Now I highly doubt that people are coming from Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, ect.... to make a better life and appreciate America and what not."
Why would you highly doubt that? These are some pretty shitty war-torn countries, and there are thousands of migrants trying to escape and make a better life.
That's the first thing I thought as well. It would be hard to come from those countries and not have a better life here. What is so difficult to believe about that?
And honestly, it is incredibly hard for anyone to do so legally. There are some really interesting stories about Afghani people who helped American soldiers against the taliban at great personal cost, but even they can't even get into the country legally to keep themselves and their families from being killed in retaliation.
When it comes to protecting your family and making a better life for themselves, people are willing to do some crazy stuff - in the grand scope of things, illegally entering a wealthy nation in search of a better life isn't even that crazy of a thing to do. Considering how wealthy America is compared to many other countries, it's much more likely that people entering this country illegally want to become one of us, not kill us.
Look, i'm not saying that there aren't some families or individuals coming from those countries looking for a better life. Obviously there are always going to be outliers from the majority and exceptions to the rule. What I'm saying is that it's pretty safe to assume that, for the most part, people coming here illegally from countries that hold a notoriously hostile view of this nation are probably not crossing the borders with the best intentions.
But I'm saying the opposite... The overwhelming majority are not coming with 'bad intentions' and it's totally ridiculous to say so. I live in the UK where I suspect the problem of Afghani and Pakistani immigrants is much more acute given that it's easier to get in here than the US. And Afghanis and Pakistanis both have extremely good reasons to resent Britain! But it's ridiculous to say that the majority of them coming in have bad intentions... The majority are coming in because otherwise they would literally die.
Yes you will hear about hate preachers and British born terrorists, but let me tell you, if the majority of British Pakistanis came with bad intentions on Britain... We'd be pretty fucked. The majority live peaceful lives, send their kids to school, and get on with things. And as far as the illegal immigrants are concerned, if I was born into such a shitty situation as there were, you can guarantee I'd be trying to hope on a truck from Calais as well.
The US may be far from perfect but I don't doubt for a second that it's better than many places in the world. Now, don't get me wrong, I completely understand that I am young, naive, and lack a full understanding of the effects of immigration to the US. I've always been told that too much immigration causes problems for everyone in the country, and I'm sure that in some ways that must be true. However, I can't bring myself to want to deny immigration rights to anyone wanting to make a better life here. I can't bring myself to feel more entitled to the opportunity to build a career and a life in the US than anyone else that wants to try, especially when I was lucky enough to be born into a better standard of living than a lot of people in the world probably were. The US was built by immigrants, and I'm not sure who has the right to deny people entry into the country. I'm sure it must be done at some point, somehow, but that's a decision I don't think I could ever morally reconcile.
I guess that means I should just stay out of politics.
It's just the left twisting what any opposition says into politically incorrect stuff. Of course people shouldn't be allowed to just enter all willy nilly. I am personally fascinated by latin culture, and geography but you cannot ignore the fact that there are drugs and guns run through the border by cartels and the like.
I think it's more than just a gaff. He made some remarks that insulted a large group of people, and then chose to double down on those remarks every time they came up. When NBC and Univision cuts ties with him he accused them of supporting illegal immigration or some such nonsense. He also threatened to sue them. If this is how he acts in the first days of his campaign he has no business getting into politics.
I don't really care for Trump nor would I ever want to see him elected President, but after reading what he said, I don't really see the issue here:
"I like Mexico. I love the Mexican people. I do business with the Mexican people, but you have people coming through the border that are from all over. And they're bad. They're really bad," he said. "You have people coming in, and I'm not just saying Mexicans, I'm talking about people that are from all over that are killers and rapists and they're coming into this country.” Source
What is not true about the above statment? What is so offensive or racist about it? He specifically says, "they're coming from all over", and, "I'm not just saying Mexicans". I mean think about it, anyone who wants in for any sort of nefarious reason can be smuggled by drug cartels up through Mexico and across the border with relative ease. Just an example, here's a quote from a border patrol agent about the whole issue:
“It’s frustrating for all of us and there’s no doubt that we have OTMs [Other Than Mexicans] coming from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia and other parts of the world that we are very concerned with — these guys won’t be turning themselves into Border Patrol like the family units or children. I expect we’ll see more the OTMs of special interest this year and next, now that they know they can get in easier and they won’t be turned back home.” Source
Now I highly doubt that people are coming from Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, ect.... to make a better life and appreciate America and what not. So what I don't understand is why is everyone out for blood over comments that are for the most part, pretty damn factual. I mean I understand the backlash in the news as theres always motivating factors on spinning a story in one direction or another, but why the hell is the general public buying into this bullshit? Trump is no saint, but he didn't exactly call for racial genocide either. He simply told the truth.
So I think you left out some very important context on those quotes that lead to the outrage.
When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re sending people that have lots of problems. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.
This leaves out that really, most of the immigrates coming over illegally probably aren't bad people. He implied that all Mexican's that come over are bad people. He also implies that Mexico is sending them over.
His biggest failure was his wording and then his double down. Clamming that the Mexican government pressured Univision to drop it's contract. He might have had some fair points, but they got lost on delivery and he refused to acknowledge his mistake.
I posted that quote as opposed to the former because it was a reiteration of his stance that he had stated shortly after and one that he still seemed to be receiving just as much flak for. I apologize if it came off as misleading in any way as that was not my intention. I was simply trying to post the view he held that seemed to be causing this uproar. I agree with you 100 percent that his delivery was atrocious and seems to be at the root of the problem here. Obviously there is a problem with crime among some of the immigrant population, aside from the crime of coming here illegally, but to paint the majority as thugs and rapists seems like a bit of a misstep. However, the issue I still hold with the backlash he's receiving is that while the initial comments may have come off as a bit harsh, he did further clarify his statement and I believe that is where the outrage should have ceased. His delivery was off, we've all had those moments. It's no reason to crucify someone. As I said before, I don't even like Trump. But this whole situation comes across as outrage for the sake outrage.
Ok I seemed to have missed that reiteration. I saw a clip of him talking several days later (on fox I think?) where he stated something to the effect of "x% of women are raped crossing the boarder and the rapist have o be coming from somewhere". This is a very poor wording of his quote, so take it with a grain of salt, but he was again implying that a large percentage of the immigrates are criminals. I think this has been blown out of proportion but I really think he is also feeding it. It seems like he will clarify some and then backtrack back to the former statement. I almost think he is doing it on purpose, but I would have no idea what his goal would be. I don't think he is a viable candidate period. I don't think he understands politics, the media, or public relations.
* I don't think he understands politics, the media, or public relations.*
Absolutely, I think you hit the nail on the head. He strikes me as an out of touch old businessman who doesn't really have any business running the country. I haven't watched any video on the subject, have just been sticking to reading his quotes, so I missed the one you mentioned about the women being raped and what not. I would like to believe that he is wrong, and since I don't have any hard numbers on the issue in front of me, i'd have to give the immigrants the benefit of the doubt which is really what he should have done as well. Again though, i'm not even sure if that's really waht he meant at this point or if he just poorly worded it as his fumbling is causing it all just criss cross into this giant mess. I know how politically correct and sensitive everyone is in this day and age and I still believe this is a major contributing factor, however there's no denying that he is also at fault in this whole ordeal as anyone running for high office needs to be able to convey their messages in a clear and concise manner, and than stick by said messages when pushed on the issue.
It's interesting-really when you read what he is saying. He's arguing for better national security at the borders. He certainly did commit some gaffes, but his message is one trying to protect Americans from crime (Maybe some spillover from the drug war in Northern Mexico).
But it's a politician, so who knows his end goal anyway.
I heard a really interesting interview with a former president of Mexico on a podcast, I think it may have been Freakonomics, where he basically said flat out that his primary goal had been to knock down as many borders as possible between the North American nations, and that in fact there was a deal seriously in the works to allow for much greater economic permeability (for both money and labor) at the Mexico-US border before 9/11 totally redirected the US government's focus.
That has no bearing on whether what he said was racist, but it might explain which Mexican businesses don't like it and may try to spin it that way; if this was a thing that was seriously in the works as the former president said, there may be a lot of powerful people in Mexico who are kind of upset that it got put on indefinite hold.
Your point is sound. I agree definitely.
"Now I highly doubt that people are coming from Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, ect.... to make a better life and appreciate America and what not."
Why would you highly doubt that? These are some pretty shitty war-torn countries, and there are thousands of migrants trying to escape and make a better life.
That's the first thing I thought as well. It would be hard to come from those countries and not have a better life here. What is so difficult to believe about that?
And honestly, it is incredibly hard for anyone to do so legally. There are some really interesting stories about Afghani people who helped American soldiers against the taliban at great personal cost, but even they can't even get into the country legally to keep themselves and their families from being killed in retaliation.
When it comes to protecting your family and making a better life for themselves, people are willing to do some crazy stuff - in the grand scope of things, illegally entering a wealthy nation in search of a better life isn't even that crazy of a thing to do. Considering how wealthy America is compared to many other countries, it's much more likely that people entering this country illegally want to become one of us, not kill us.
Look, i'm not saying that there aren't some families or individuals coming from those countries looking for a better life. Obviously there are always going to be outliers from the majority and exceptions to the rule. What I'm saying is that it's pretty safe to assume that, for the most part, people coming here illegally from countries that hold a notoriously hostile view of this nation are probably not crossing the borders with the best intentions.
But I'm saying the opposite... The overwhelming majority are not coming with 'bad intentions' and it's totally ridiculous to say so. I live in the UK where I suspect the problem of Afghani and Pakistani immigrants is much more acute given that it's easier to get in here than the US. And Afghanis and Pakistanis both have extremely good reasons to resent Britain! But it's ridiculous to say that the majority of them coming in have bad intentions... The majority are coming in because otherwise they would literally die.
Yes you will hear about hate preachers and British born terrorists, but let me tell you, if the majority of British Pakistanis came with bad intentions on Britain... We'd be pretty fucked. The majority live peaceful lives, send their kids to school, and get on with things. And as far as the illegal immigrants are concerned, if I was born into such a shitty situation as there were, you can guarantee I'd be trying to hope on a truck from Calais as well.
That's presupposing that everyone in the country has the same worldview, which is folly at best and disingenuous at worst.
The US may be far from perfect but I don't doubt for a second that it's better than many places in the world. Now, don't get me wrong, I completely understand that I am young, naive, and lack a full understanding of the effects of immigration to the US. I've always been told that too much immigration causes problems for everyone in the country, and I'm sure that in some ways that must be true. However, I can't bring myself to want to deny immigration rights to anyone wanting to make a better life here. I can't bring myself to feel more entitled to the opportunity to build a career and a life in the US than anyone else that wants to try, especially when I was lucky enough to be born into a better standard of living than a lot of people in the world probably were. The US was built by immigrants, and I'm not sure who has the right to deny people entry into the country. I'm sure it must be done at some point, somehow, but that's a decision I don't think I could ever morally reconcile.
I guess that means I should just stay out of politics.
It's just the left twisting what any opposition says into politically incorrect stuff. Of course people shouldn't be allowed to just enter all willy nilly. I am personally fascinated by latin culture, and geography but you cannot ignore the fact that there are drugs and guns run through the border by cartels and the like.
I think it's more than just a gaff. He made some remarks that insulted a large group of people, and then chose to double down on those remarks every time they came up. When NBC and Univision cuts ties with him he accused them of supporting illegal immigration or some such nonsense. He also threatened to sue them. If this is how he acts in the first days of his campaign he has no business getting into politics.
If he had have taken back what he had said he'd have been wrong too. It was kind of no win when he opened his mouth.
He could have clarified without taking back. They are a lot better ways to word his comments.
It was a pretty bad wording on an explosive topic.
I agree. I think this will follow him for a very long time.