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Published 8 years ago by doodlegirl with 30 Comments
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Conversation 9 comments by 6 users
  • Triseult (edited 8 years ago)
    +19

    I've been thinking about this, especially about the glee and Schadenfreude that surrounds the hack from online commentators. I'm uncomfortable with the online reaction.

    The common way of thinking here seems to be, "Well, what they're doing is wrong, so they get what they deserve." Except that, you know, cheating on your partner isn't illegal. This means we're celebrating people getting punished excessively because they did a moral wrong.

    Is this the society we want? Where you can do something legal yet receive punishment for it while the crowd cheers?

    I'm not defending adultery, by the way. Not at all. You can switch "adultery" with any legal sexual activity (say, gay sex) that is seen as morally repugnant by a part of the population.

    • pixelboot
      +13

      Only gay sex doesn't involve hurting and deceiving the people who love and trust you the most. This is why people are happy that the list was leaked. Not many people can empathize with a cheater, but they can easily remember a time when they were victimized by someone being a piece of shit.

      • Appaloosa
        +11

        Hey pix, calm down. Been there too.

      • Triseult (edited 8 years ago)
        +8

        I understand what you're saying, and I understand where the sentiment is coming from. I just think these feelings are not a good basis for conducting punishment in a civil society. It's vengeance by proxy, not justice.

        I think the example of gay sex holds, because although you see no harm done with it, some people do based on their own moral compass. Not saying they're right--they're not. I'm saying the people who would want gays to be punished outside the law follow a very similar thought process, and their sense of right and wrong is not a valid criteria for justice in a civil society.

        • pixelboot
          +11

          Until gay sex begins tearing apart families and destroying the lives of partners that loved and trusted their spouses, there is not a connection.

          We can agree to disagree.

          • SevenTales
            +6

            Hum...It did. Being gay had and still has in some places a strong taboo surrounding it. Families where gutted when one child outed themselves as gay, and the family couldn't cope with that. Religious families still today resort to exiling family members for that very purpose. People pressured into fitting in the heterosexual mold that later reveal themselves can break appart families, exactly like cheating does.
            From the point of view of religious parents, being gay was an offense as worst if not worse than cheating, which can be kept under wraps depending on the situation. It was, to them, a morally disgusting act.

    • Fuyu (edited 8 years ago)
      +7

      Except that, you know, cheating on your partner isn't illegal.

      Actually, it is illegal in 21 states, so you can argue a percentage of those people were actually criminal and deserved to get caught regardless of any moral views.

      • SevenTales
        +6

        ...If they where in those states. Most of Ashley Madison's "clientele" probably wasn't, seeing as it was especially popular in Canada, where adultery is not a crime. What happens to them? Did they deserve it as well?
        Also, Seeing as it isn't the law that did the job, but criminals, what happens then? Is it suddenly morally right to expose and publicly humiliate someone based on illegally obtained information?

    • click
      +7

      I completely get what you're saying, but with the other "frowned upon but not illegal" activities you haven't explicitly promised (in front of a lot of people) that you would stay together - for life. It is different.

      In any case, the hacker's motivation wasn't that at all - it was that the company behind Ashley Madison had promised to delete user data for $20 per user - but then didn't actually do it.

Conversation 11 comments by 7 users
  • hitthee
    +8

    Good.

    • Xeriel
      +14

      Why do you think that?

      • hitthee
        +4

        because I really dislike that site so anything negative towards it is a good thing in my book.

        • twoBits
          +15

          Unfortunately, it is not negative ONLY towards the site. Peoples lives could be potentially ruined because some hackers don't agree with it. It shouldn't be up to hackers or anyone else to be the moral compass for so many others. We may not agree with what the site offers people or how people use it. Let's let them decide what they need and what's good for their own lives.

          • hitthee
            +14

            Oh you with your logic and valid arguments

            • pixelboot
              +7

              As someone who was recently cheated on, I am having a very hard time sympathizing with your logic. The only way their lives would be "ruined" is if their partners found out what they did. And if the cheaters are slimey enough, they'll talk their way out of it. (I wouldn't even consider the end of a relationship a ruined life, but that's just me).

              No, the only way they "ruined their lives" was by cheating in the first place. The hack isn't what has the potential to cause issues, being on the list is what has the potential to cause issues.

              The only part I sympathize for is the fact that their passwords and credit card info was leaked too.

            • SevenTales
              +12
              @pixelboot -

              1. It's possible, and even highly likely, that the person on the site never had an affair. Ashley Madison has been sued before for fake female profiles, and some are reporting as high as 95% of profiles being male. So I don't think it was that efficient at it's purpose.
              2. There is a big difference between cheating and public humiliation. I am not saying cheating is okay, far from it. But the punishment here can destroy a life, a reputation, for far more than the relationship. Of course the cheater is not okay (in current society's moral compass, anyway), and the relationship is important to the SO, but it could lead to someone losing their job (think public persona) to their career and pension (think military). Being a scumbag isn't cool, but it's hardly worth that I'm sure.
              3. You have to separate the two. Posting private informations on the public web should NEVER be a good thing, whatever you think of the people being doxed. THAT is illegal, and can definitely destroy lives.

            • PushPull
              +8
              @pixelboot -

              So what I'm hearing here is that under NO circumstances, a cheater should be given a pass. Even if their spouse maliciously withholds affection, or is maybe handicapped beyond being able to be affectionate. Even if they have a previously agreed upon 'open' relationship.

              Not saying that I condone cheating in it's purest sense, but there are going to be victims, legitimate victims, because someone couldn't imagine the reasons. The picture is much bigger, and we can not possibly fathom all the possible reasons.

            • frohawk
              +7
              @PushPull -

              Even if they have a previously agreed upon 'open' relationship

              That's not cheating. Cheating is only breaking the terms of your relationship. If they both agree with it, it's fine.

            • pixelboot
              +8
              @PushPull -

              yes, you heard correctly. unless it has been previously agreed upon, which you pointed out. then that is not cheating. cheating is lying and hurting your partner in one of the rawest ways possible. people who cheat are some of the lowest scums of the earth. i put them on the same level as any other con-artist with only their selfish personal gain in mind, able to justify their shitty behavior with weak excuses. if you lie to your partner in such an intimate way, and risk literally destroying both your own and their lives (as well as potentially any children) for your own emotional thrill ride, you're a piece of shit. period.

            • SevenTales
              +7
              @pixelboot -

              I was trying to have a rational debate with you at two points in this thread, but reading this, I get now that you are way too emotional to actually have a discussion on the subject, so I'll just stop there and I hope that it will get better for you.

  • NotWearingPants
    +15

    Some clever foreign intelligence agency combining this data with the OPM breach should have a field day with blackmail possibilities. Assuming the divorce attorneys don't get there first.

  • [Deleted Profile] (edited 8 years ago)

    [This comment was removed]

  • BlueByte
    +11

    Could be a interesting news day. I am in Canada and Ottawa in particular had reportedly had a high percentage of the population signed up. With the upcoming elections this might make or break some political parties for the fall election.

  • staxofmax
    +9

    It's a good time to be a divorce lawyer.

  • staxofmax
    +8

    In the past two years two of my credit card numbers were involved in three security breaches at three separate retailers. And as entertaining as this Ashley Madison episode is (40 MILLION MEMBERS?!?), one has to wonder at what point to people lose confidence in the security of traditional financial services companies. I mean, there are alternative currencies out there, and while they have their own issues they seem far more secure than the traditional checking and credit card system. One has to wonder if there is some tipping point at which confidence in credit card and information security is so low that it starts a mass exodus in favor of cryptocurrencies. This would have huge ramifications, not just to Visa, Mastercard, and American Express, but for world financial markets and global currencies as a whole.

  • frohawk
    +2

    I don't know how a company like this wasn't prepared for something of this nature.

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