I don't know, doesn't seem like the greatest conditions to work at. Maybe if it was a bit more like "wine and roses" and a little bit less like slavery, then maybe things would change for the better. For now, its a downward spiral if I ever saw one.

Maybe you should compare Walmart conditions to that of the second largest. Unionized Kroger, that have adopted Walmart policies on steroids. Makes Walmart criticism a moot point. "Slavery" is a gross mischaracterization!

Yep, that might be so, but lately I have been reading on the business practices of Costco... yet another competitor that is in Walmart's territory. It made for some interesting reading, specifically the part where the workers there adore the place, they don't strike, and they get paid almost double making their wages viable and life a lot less stressful. Where Walmart works along with the rest of the capitalistic model to keep their workforce in place, Costco makes every effort to help their employees flourish. Walmart is a dying breed, their demise, sadly, is taking way too long.

"Slavery" is a gross mischaracterization!

Why do you think that? Isn't the concept of "modern slavery" all about paying as little as possible in an effort to considerably limit and or make extremely difficult for the persons that work for you to advance in life due to the "paycheck to paycheck" catch 22 that most poor families are faced with? Last time I checked people no longer own others in the classical sense but capitalism opens up a whole new set of possibilities on how take advantage of the less fortunate.

Walmart's profit growth will suffer, but only because they have neared the saturation point. Dying breed?, demise?, "works along with the rest of the capitalistic model", specifically just what? The capitalistic model is based on, I repeat, you, I, and everyone else.

The capitalistic model is based on, I repeat, you. I, and everyone else.

Agree with your statement 100%. We are all part of a system that is not working for us and it hasn't for a long time, if anything we are working for it like a slave works for their master. Only the elite few benefit from it, and as they get richer the rest of us get poorer. The american dream? That's been dead for decades now. Is the current capitalist model the best model for society? Who knows, we all have our opinions, but I'm sure many would agree that the way things are benefit almost no one. We are nothing but cattle, jumping through hoops to make it work... and for who? surely not for the majority of the American population or the world for that matter.

The "concept of modern slavery" can be what you wish it. Has nothing to do with "slavery' in the classical sense. Just like fast food and other traditional "entry level" jobs, much employment has nothing to do with "providing living wage jobs for a family". Of course you probably consider that unfair as well. It all has to do with preparation for employment for just the kind of job that furnishes one with adequate compensation.

Work for yourself, or prepare for a decent career, the American Dream is only what you make it. Victimization is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think you're confusing my statement with the concept of "too lazy to work", which I'm not promoting here. People will end up doing whatever they want with their lives, and if their path takes them in the direction of a job they don't like doing, well thats the reality of the way things are...especially at this point in time. My beef is with the general concept of capitalism, "pay as little as possible to make as much as possible". This approach is what destroys living wages, and what corrupts companies into mistreating their work force, at this point it doesn't matter if people truly give their best to make things work (we're not talking about lazy people here). There is ample evidence that companies can make their business work without stooping so low as to make their employees feel like slaves, sadly this way of thinking isn't being promoted and the tried and true model of exploiting your workforce remains the go to model for profit.

Work for yourself, or prepare for a decent career, the American Dream is only what you make it. Victimization is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Easier said than done. Personally I can see that you're more than likely very well off and probably in a much better financial situation than most. You're a smart guy, and you definitely know how to argue your point so I congratulate you on that. Sadly, not everyone is as smart as you, not as well educated or able to articulate themselves in such a matter that you have so gracefully displayed. Capitalism doesn't work for those people, they don't have those same opportunities, they probably don't even have the time to pop onto here and enjoy a discussion or two. They are busy living foot to mouth trying to make ends meet, stressing every day about bills they can't pay. It is those people that are the workforce that make capitalism work, and at what cost?

Anyway, we all have our opinions, and I feel we have exhausted this discussion. Good on you for sticking to your beliefs man. Cheers.

No reference to "lazy people" was made by me. High paying jobs take preparation, schooling, apprenticeships, et al. Would you consider for instance an international buyer at Rolls Royce, making a six figure +income a slave? He/she possibly could. One could easily look to our government as the biggest culprit in this situation. Taxing/regulating "dirty" industry out of our country, the main source of decent paying jobs of the past, have been replaced with jobs that require education/skills. Of course there is "globalization", providing cheaper labor, and less stringent regulation. The fact remains, no other economic system can create wealth as efficiently as capitalism.

My argument wasn't that there currently exists such a system that is overwhelmingly different from Capitalism. I'm simply pointing out major flaws that have been ripping a wider and wider hole in what we call Capitalism today. Anyway, at the end of the day its all opinions... no one wins or looses here, and I'm not in it for the internet points.

"points" have no meaning here either, just opportunities to offer most usually fact based views to counter all the B.S. spewed by agenda based articles. Enjoy the discussion(s),

Tell me, what kinds of people or companies would release these agenda based articles. Surely these agendas leads to something, and where do most things end up leading to? Could it be, hmm... money?

Everyone, from the flawed narrative of Darren Wilson, universal wage, Obamacare, police indictments, to just name a few, more recent categories. It's all about money, influence, power, all same same.

I'm glad we're on the same page on that. The only incorruptible economic model or form of government is one where the human element is not in control. Sadly unless we build an AI that is able to monitor and dish out justice like an adult does to a bunch of 5 year old kids playing in a sandbox, we can expect more of the same. Honestly, it's a depressing thought to think that we are so susceptible to corruption that we literally need a more intelligent life form to babysit us and to make sure we don't fuck ourselves out of existence. That is of course given the very optimistic notion that the AI we do create, if ever, will be of the friendly variety.

Oh by the way, I am not "well-off", I am educated enough to accept that my financial plight is my responsibility, and the lack of anything I have is not due to something or someone else. If individuals would apply just 50% of their potential this discussion would be moot.

If individuals would apply just 50% of their potential this discussion would be moot.

You are a statistical anomaly, if this problem was happening to a small minority of people failing to apply themselves in order to better themselves and their lives than your point would be irrefutable. However this is happening to literally dozens of MILLIONS of people, these people don't have the resources, connections, education or support to move in the right direction. Something is holding such a large amount of people back, this is my question.. what exactly is responsible for such a wide spread issue?

We all could use an utopia, but who's?

I don't think we can (at our current level of intelligence) come up with anything even remotely resembling a "Utopia" :D The closest thing to a utopia (at least after death) is religion, and look at the mess that created.

A culture of you are less than others, not lack of opportunities. It's a self-fulfillment.

I don't think you're using the word "culture" in the right context, as the word generally implies betterment or refinement of individuals, especially though education (taken directly from Wikipedia's definition of the word). For the sake of argument though, please describe to me the opportunities available to a low income American citizen born into a life of earning less than a living wage employed by fat cat capitalistic powerhouses like Walmart who would like nothing more but to keep you exactly where you are. Its a ruthless cycle, a machine built to flourish off of the blood and sweat of the less fortunate born into a life of work to eat, and eat to live. I cannot disagree with you more that such a majority of people deserve to be in a situation like that, especially by a model as outdated by today's standards as the music industry is to technological advancements. The capitalism you're referring to is long dead, out smarted by corporations and literally shat on by the very same people that were enriched by it, it is no longer the efficient way at creating wealth, instead it is a control mechanism to retain it.

Culture as in,"The sum of attitudes, customs, and beliefs that distinguishes one group of people from another" As to opportunities, finish high school, go to college or a trade apprenticeship. Start your own business, many require little investment other than time.

I would hardly describe low income families living in poverty and struggling to make ends meet as having any cultural significance to America as a country. Perhaps you would agree that this is America's culture as opposed to other countries... crafted by capitalism and reinforced by corporations. Either way, we circle back to the concept of free time, sadly this is the one thing most of these people need more of outside of their 10 hour shifts and 2nd jobs.

One's attitudes and beliefs are a result of their culture. Being told you are second class and have little to no legitimate opportunities are a fact of life of poverty. Until one can unburden themselves from such negativity, they are apt to self-fulfill that prophecy. Ten hour shifts would be a godsend to most entrepreneurs.

So, to generalize... "If you believe in yourself hard enough to overcome a system designed to shit on you, wonderful things can happen". Got it :)

You captured it quite precisely: your belief. Many succeed/benefit from the system, from every background, how or why is it so selective to shit just on you? (By "you" I mean just the selected)

I think the more important question is why is the system shitting on anyone?

Is it "shitting" on anyone, or are they "shitting themselves"?

I think at this point we should agree to disagree, its obvious this isn't going to go anywhere. So lets call it a day, till next time dude, good talk.

Yeah, working blows.

Please pardon this vulgar question but how much did you make when you worked in retail?

In late 60,s less than 2 bucks as I recall, seems maybe 1.50- 1.75/hr, long time ago. I was young had a good time didn't matter then. No one made enough to feed a family in those positions, wasn't meant to, no one expected to.

I worked retail late 90's into early 00's while in school part-time making somewhere around $8/hr. I never had anyone but myself to support but certainly had co-workers who supported families on a similar salary. Times have really changed.