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Published 1 year ago with 21 Comments

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Conversation 20 comments by 7 users
  • NotWearingPants (edited 1 year ago)
    +4

    Now lets see that graphic with drug and gang violence removed, and explain how any approach to gun control eliminates that portion.

    • AdelleChattre
      +5

      It's unhinged how gun control advocates use hysteria around very specific events to justify policies that have nothing to do with those very specific events. "Oh, mass mayhem has happened, let's deny firearms permits to anybody on the No Fly List!"

      • NotWearingPants
        +4

        Blaming guns for gun violence is like blaming planes for 9/11.

        • AdelleChattre
          +6

          Congressional Democrats actually staged a sit-in protest on the House floor, that's how committed they were to making the No Fly List, that crime against the right to due process, the cornerstone of their national gun control policy. In a less stupid country, that might've been to draw attention to the No Fly List. No, that's how chicken-with-its-head-cut-off gun control advocacy is. Me, I'm bewildered that anyone can support abortion rights, but not arms rights, or vice versa. Hypocrisy is too kind a word.

    • leweb
      +5

      So are you suggesting that the US has about a thousand times the gangs that other countries have?

      • Appaloosa
        +4

        Leweb, gang culture in the US, like other countries is admired, written about, made popular. You would have to be blind not to see it and disingenuous not to admit it.

        • leweb
          +3

          I didn't say there aren't gangs in the US. But I also think it's disingenuous to say that there aren't any in Australia, or Canada, or Britain, etc.

          • Appaloosa
            +2

            And that is what I said "gang culture in the US, like other countries"...and gun deaths are much higher in the US than those other countries.

        • sashinator
          +3

          Am I to understand that your argument is "guns don't kill people, gang violence kills people... with guns, yes, but guns are not to blame; gangs are; so we need more guns in hands of non-gang members who will then exterminate gangs - gangs which, mind you, will not arm themselves while being exterminated - and, thus, end gang violence and the cause of all these non-gun-but-gang-related deaths"?

          I find that to be... somewhat baffling and amusing (as I don't live in the US)

          If I did live with compatriots who held this argument and voted in politicians who apply legislation in line with it - I suspect I would not find it as amusing.

          • Appaloosa (edited 1 year ago)
            +5

            Nope. Gangs do kill people, mostly each other and guns help them do that, so guns are part of the problem. And they do skew stats, but we are still far, far below where other advanced societies are. So culture and society play a part, including what is laudable and what is not. Guns are a symptom. Switzerland as an example is a gun society that acts responsibly.

            http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015...15891/the-u-s-is-a-world-leader-in-gun-deaths

            Pretty sad statistics.

            By the way...who exactly are you quoting?

            EDIT: want clarification for your quote...or did you just make it up.

            "guns don't kill people, gang violence kills people... with guns, yes, but guns are not to blame; gangs are; so we need more guns in hands of non-gang members who will then exterminate gangs - gangs which, mind you, will not arm themselves while being exterminated - and, thus, end gang violence and the cause of all these non-gun-but-gang-related deaths"?

            • AdelleChattre
              +3

              Sashinator's paraphrase comes from a Mr. Straw D. Man, of Peoria, Illinois.

    • Appaloosa
      +4

      http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-...-highest-rates-of-firearm-related-deaths.html

      It's pretty sad where we rank. I agree, drug gangs skew the US but it still is far, far above developed nation's norms per capita. It is also related to economics, and of course the availability of guns.

      • RusSwatKatsFan
        +4

        Good luck trying to reason with him. Judging by what I've seen of him he's a Trump supporter and those kinds couldn't reason their way out of a paper bag.

        • Appaloosa
          +6

          I have many times been unreasonable in my thinking and in my actions, and many would argue I still am. What I have learned, is that I can be wrong, and the only way I could have learned that was to be around those who were reasonably right, accept, listen to and look inward...and you know what, sometimes I was wrong, and changed my mind, and sometimes I think I am right. It does not happen in an echo chamber, it happens inside each of us and it happens through challenging the norm that we have all grown up to be, so I welcome a dissenter with reason.

        • AdelleChattre (edited 1 year ago)
          +4

          Not that you're judging, or a stranger to reason, yourself. It's just people that have opinions that differ from yours have horns, their eyes are set sideways and they wear their shoes on their hands, right?

          • RusSwatKatsFan
            +4

            A person votes for Trump to oppress people like me.

            They send death threats to people like me.

            They encourage violence against people like me.

            They fantasize about committing genocide.

            So excuse me for not being politically correct to scummy assholes.

            • AdelleChattre (edited 1 year ago)
              +6

              Not going to make excuses for anyone that supports a bigoted prick like Trump. Yes, anyone consciously choosing to back that Know-Nothing mass of grievous personality disorders means they're down for everything you're saying. However, you're in this, too. Forgive me for suggesting it, but it seems to me anyway, that starting from a basis of fear, you've not only bought into the rabid alienation and mindset of persecution that Trump sells his thralls, but you've forfeited any chance at turning his political fortunes as well. Down to every last little ol' granny that's afraid of her mailman and every day since 1964.

              Sure, anyone with a sneaking admiration for this silver-spoon tin-plated sack of shit is party to the most bigoted administration since Wilson. Sure, there are those of them that've mixed up their persecution fantasies with their fantasies of persecuting. But buy into his super-villainy enough to confuse voters for villains, and you've given up. To him. To that. My suggestion is to deny him your fear, and laugh at him more. Less baring of teeth, more smiles. Very similar, but very different.

            • RusSwatKatsFan
              +4
              @AdelleChattre -

              Sorry. I was in a bad mood earlier this week.

              You're right, being angry isn't going to make other people's anger too.

              Again, I apologize.

  • supercow
    +1

    Please keep those guns away from the hands of the murderers. Why do people argue about this simple point is baffling. We are 6 billion on this earth, do we need more regulations to keep things in order or leave everybody with their own whims to cause more disaster?

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