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Published 3 years ago with 15 Comments

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  • leweb
    +5

    The college debt crisis is part of the government's (read: bankers') war on education. You can get an education if you sell your future to a bank. Also, don't use your intelligence to figure out how much they're screwing you, you're not being paid for that.

    • [Deleted Profile]

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    • MAGISTERLUDI (edited 3 years ago)
      +2

      The real problem is the value/demand for many degrees. I have seen many grads take up construction/trade apprenticeship programs to make a living. Spent/wasted four years or more on nothing, in which time they could/would have been paid and acquired a lifetime earning skill.

      • spaceghoti
        +2

        TIL that a well-rounded education is nothing but a waste.

        • MAGISTERLUDI
          +1

          What precisely is a "well-rounded education"?

          Something one can only get from a college/university?

          • spaceghoti
            +4

            I'm sure there's a reason why colleges and universities were set up. What could it have been?

            • MAGISTERLUDI
              +1

              You answer mine and I'll answer yours;-)

            • spaceghoti
              +3
              @MAGISTERLUDI -

              A well-rounded education is one where you're exposed to a multitude of ideas and given the chance to learn about more than a single, targeted area of expertise. And no, that's not the kind of thing you get from a trade apprenticeship.

            • MAGISTERLUDI (edited 3 years ago)
              +1
              @spaceghoti -

              Something one can only get from a college/university?:....... not addressed. Despite that here is mine.

              The True Purpose of College and Higher Education, Dung Nguyen

              "When academics created various educational systems long ago in ancient Greece and China, they did not design these centers of learning for the masses. Rather, they were made for the elite: the well-endowed, prosperous citizen. These places were conceived with the ideas of wisdom and enlightenment in mind. Unfortunately, (or fortunately, depending on one's opinion) this is no longer the case in many educational facilities. In the United States, university and college systems have become much more accessible to the populace. Though there is little doubt that this is a good turn of events, it has also brought about a change in the focus of many institutions. Universities seek to attract accomplished researchers from around the world, putting less and less emphasis on dynamic curriculum and "credential" teachers. Instead of making education a diverse and interactive environment where one challenges known assumptions, and probes mysterious realms of thought, it has become one where the same topics are taught repetitively every year, making students cynical and unconcerned about real learning. Rather, students care much more about getting an "A" and graduating with their degree on time. The romantic notion of learning for the sake of increasing one's understanding is no longer practiced. This is mainly due to the mass production methods now being applied to higher learning."

              While trade/apprenticeship programs may not be all encompassing, they certainly do not preclude a student learning what they may about what they may without agendas.

            • spaceghoti
              +3
              @MAGISTERLUDI -

              So, you think trade/apprenticeship programs are likely to encourage a broad education rather than targeted skills training? Please tell me, what is the point of a trade apprenticeship program? Isn't it specifically to target specific skills training?

              Nothing precludes students from learning whatever they want regardless of agenda, that's true of any education. It depends a great deal on the student. But when you explicitly narrow their focus such as in training for a trade then you do far less to encourage a well-rounded education than a student who attends a university with a broad range of available topics and even requires classes outside their expertise in order to graduate.

              Whatever universities were created for in Greece and China, today they're places of learning and research. The fact that higher education leads to more liberal minds has far less to do with a specific agenda and more to do with the typical impact of exposure to new and sometimes conflicting information. Minds operate best when open, not when squeezed through narrow channels.

            • MAGISTERLUDI (edited 3 years ago)
              +2
              @spaceghoti -

              The real problem is the value/demand for many degrees. College value vs: debt was the initial thrust of my comments. However if you think that a college education is necessary for a person to be "well rounded", so be it. I can think of little of my college learning/experience that truly benefits me now. I was "exposed" to other's views then, SDS, Black Panthers,YAF, tuition, anti-war demonstrations among many others. Most of which I have seen as faulty since. So no just being exposed to different views is not necessarily enlightening, rather at a young age can be detrimental. The professors did have an agenda even in the sixties. I can tell you that the liberal arts college had a total separate vision of the world than the business college, at the same university. So I should guess it depends on which "narrow channel" your mind is squeezed. Then a "well rounded education was thought to be of value. Any degree would get you a foothold in business, no longer. What I have learned through life experience so far trumps any college class or prof's contribution to almost put it a negative light today.

            • spaceghoti
              +3
              @MAGISTERLUDI -

              It didn't work for you, therefore it's a waste for everyone else.

              I'm glad we were able to get to the root of the problem.

            • MAGISTERLUDI (edited 3 years ago)
              +1
              @spaceghoti -

              I posted by mistake before I finished. I have no idea what age you are nor do I care, but if you carry the ideal of "well rounded" college education with you past your youth, then you taint the remainder of your life's experiences. An injustice.

              There is much supposed education that needs unlearned.

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