Text Post: Hello Snapzu posted by factoverfallacy
parent
  • AdelleChattre
    +4

    Intriguing. Looking forward to seeing your stuff. Welcome!

    • factoverfallacy
      +4

      Honest opinion, will I be welcome? Most places (Reddit) I just get gibberish like replies.

      • AdelleChattre
        +6

        Looks like you’ve already got your welcome! Since you ask, though, the least I can do is give you the honest opinion you asked for. Seeing as how you haven’t actually posted any of your stuff yet, there’s only so much to go on. Offhand, I’d say it’s likely to come down to what you’re using for ‘facts,’ what kind of attitude you’re describing by ‘over,’ and what you’re taking to mean a ‘fallacy.’ One thing that gives me pause is your casually dismissing the replies you’ve had elsewhere so far as ‘gibberish.’

        Time being scarce, I’ve hardly had any time to look over your participation in the subreddits /r/dogs, /r/DebateAChristian, /r/HillaryForPrison, /r/MensRights, /r/pitbulls, /r/progun, /r/rant, /r/The_Donald, and /r/TrueReddit. Wow, you’re a veterinarian? Right on. Brace yourself, word gets around about something like that. You’ll find a great number of folks around here do love their critters. It does look like you’ve had some contentious conversations, alright. Snapzu’s something else, though, than you’ve encountered at Reddit. Central to the philosophy here is a basic level of respect for the other users. If you’re tired of being battered about the face and neck by commenters over there, you can rest a bit more easily here. Due respect, though, means respect is due. Escalation’s got limits here. You set the tone, but mind how.

        Wittgenstein was a person early in life, and a person later in life, and they couldn’t’ve been less alike. Younger Ludwig, in Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus days, insisted on a rigid, but brittle, analytical approach which was demanding enough for him to handle, but excruciating for people around him. Even exhausting. Decades later, he’d found his way through, out and around those strictures of meaning and understanding and achieved a grace in that whimsy and fun that would’ve been as nonsensical and gibberish to his younger self as we would find it wise and pragmatic. The Philosophical Investigations Ludwig sounds easier to know, but we are who we are when we are. It seems to me you’ve got so much respect for authorities that its affected the basic level of respect you can show to people that don’t happen to be your authorities, whether those authorities are your personal interpretation of abstract concepts or mainline interpretations of Christian scripture. Your ‘facts’ apparently include spectres and the judgments of a vengeful Christian god with a very regimented and dogmatic contempt for homosexuality, for instance.

        Facts you derive from your version of plagiarized fairy tales aren’t ‘facts’ by anyone’s definition. Those are your opinions, your username notwithstanding. They’re also your opinions now, and may not be what you believe next term, or next year, or after your first car accident or after you’ve filed taxes or when you’ve had some losses. They’re, importantly, not facts to other people that’ve already been through those things. You’ve got your transient, ephemeral opinions mixed up with 'facts,' and that’s setting the stage for some drama to come.

        Which raises also rather pressing questions about your working definition of ‘fallacy.’ Too-worshipful abeyance of sundry and various arbitrary and capricious authorities may be age-appropriate for you, and you should hear it from someone at this stage that questioning authorities isn’t heresy to the dogmas you’re treating as absolute truths, but...

        ... Read Full
        • RoamingGnome
          +6

          How many words do you type per minute? I'm around a whopping 20 wpm. The message I am responding to would have taken me two hours to type out. I'll bet it took you 5 minutes. That's why my messages tend to not be very long.

          • AdelleChattre
            +3

            I hunt and peck, but it's been so long now that I type well enough. It got better when I started pretending the next letter would fly right at my eye if I didn't punch it down first. My accuracy is terrible though. Once I've gone back and fixed things, my WPM's no better than most, I'll bet. You've got the right idea — keep to the point.

            • Gozzin
              +5

              The older I've got,the worse my typing has become. I tend to hunt and peck,except playing Minecraft.

        • factoverfallacy (edited 8 years ago)
          +2

          Hmm, I seem to not be getting notified when I get replies.

          I’ve hardly had any time to look over your participation in the subreddits

          That is for sure. You completely took everything I said out of context or did a very quick skim to form an erroneous generalization.

          One thing that gives me pause is your casually dismissing the replies you’ve had elsewhere so far as ‘gibberish.’

          Gibberish: unintelligible or meaningless speech or writing; nonsense.

          Facts you derive from your version of plagiarized fairy tales aren’t ‘facts’ by anyone’s definition. Those are your opinions, your username notwithstanding.

          Fact definition: a thing that is indisputably the case.

          Opinion: a belief not based on absolute certainty or positive knowledge but on what seems true, valid, or probable to one's own mind; judgment

          Bias: prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

          An educated opinion requires the use of facts. An opinion is a judgment based on facts, an honest attempt to draw a reasonable conclusion from factual evidence. A bias is as I stated earlier is gibberish and has no place in an educated discussion. If you can't support your opinion with any type of data to form a conclusion it is just that. I don't mind a debate, however, when someone gives their n=1 opinion and provides no value to the audience, it clutters the internet with fallacies. The grade school old adage " it is not just the answer but how you arrived at the answer" holds true in any adult conversation.

          So facts to support your opinion over a fallacy to support your bias!! Get it?

          Other people not believing exactly as you do isn't 'fallacy' necessarily.

          Did I ever say that I could never be wrong? However, unless you can cite your sources and support your opinions at some kind of university level,it is just that. A fallacy is defined as "a mistaken belief, especially one based on an unsound argument".

          Sometimes it's that you're wrong. It's always that you can't know what anyone else thinks or understands or, more bafflingly, knows to be true.

          "I" am not wrong. I am smart but not innovative. I quote the innovators and experts. That is why I ask and try to understand why you think you know more than the evidence. FYI, I never cite just one source. If your answer is because uhhh uuhhh I feel or its just my opinion, well.....gibberish. I am very humble and respectful. I never dispute an expert unless I can back it up. That is just being stubborn.

          I used to debate on the University level. Before I write anything, I normally debate both sides to catch my own unconscious biases. I actually find it humorous when I school someone in an argument that I am against (devils advocate). That is called a learning experience which I have had many. It is much better to get it wrong before it counts.

          Your truth isn't absolute, and it doesn't matter how heavy duty your authorities are. Yes, that can mean someone believes that pitties have genetic predispositions to violent behavior apart from their environment and their experiences.

          You must have skipped the about me,the conclusion and the gist of all my articles. My motto is "An opinion based on sound reasoning, logic, and empirical data is never really wrong; it’s debatable. An uneducated opinion formed by prejudice and bias is." So if someone gives me a credible argument, they get no flack from m...

          ... Read Full
          • AdelleChattre (edited 8 years ago)
            +5

            Gibberish: unintelligible or meaningless speech or writing; nonsense.

            May I suggest you've gotten so little out of people's responses because you've put so little into understanding them? I feel as though you've given my response very short shrift. Seems to me you're using 'gibberish' to mean any responses you can't fit within your doctrinaire understanding of your very personal selection of esoteric belief systems. Or, distressingly as likely, won't bother trying to fit.

            Fact definition: a thing that is indisputably the case.

            Am I taking crazy pills or have you gotten 'facts' mixed up with 'axioms' and 'propositions' and 'inferences' and 'beliefs' all at once?

            Opinion: [...] Bias: [...]

            As much as I appreciate your taking time out of your day to explain four and seven letter words to me, because apparently I wouldn't've encountered these before and need them explained, it could be taken as pedantic condescension in casual conversation. Especially given that the working definitions you're apparently happy to teach seem as if they were done in particularly crude children's finger-paint handwriting.

            [...] A bias is as I stated earlier is gibberish and has no place in an educated discussion.

            There's a problem. Using the system you're describing, if someone else makes a statement, and it doesn't square with your secret homespun mix of dogma, their expressions become facts become opinions become bias become fallacy become gibberish. No wonder every response you get comes through as gibberish. To say nothing of what game you've decided we're all playing in your idea of an 'educated discussion' and 'adult conversation.' Because it looks like one where you correct people quite a lot.

            Get it?

            Daresay so. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm always wrong.

            "I" am not wrong.

            Really? Because a lot of us are often wrong. It's all I can do to realize some, of the many, times I am wrong. So often is the average person wrong that it may be good to get ahead of this common human failing, and always play the fool. People you've thought were wrong, I'll bet, may've had some truth of their own you could've gained from, if you hadn't been so busy gainsaying them. There's always a chance that you were wrong, even if it wasn't in correctly applying some dogma or another, but because say the dogma's been long-refuted, or you'd seriously misjudged the nature of the conversation you were having, or how you might've benefited by it or even what your unfounded suppositions were. Could be, right? How red would your face be?

            I am smart but not innovative. I quote the innovators and experts.

            There are unkind ways to characterize this relationship. The question I am left with is what I'm paying you for, exactly.

            I used to debate on the University level.

            No way, really? I had an inkling of this when /u/RoamingGnome expressed a human, personal sentiment and you 'corrected' him. Which is a bit like seeing a butterfly in the garden and trying, combatively, to solve it with Gaussian elimination.

            Before I write anything, I normally debate both sides to catch my own unconscious biases.

            Your short time in this universe is not a forensics competition with another school. Sometimes the answer is neither A nor B, but 1, 2, and 6. Sometimes the answer is because it snowed the night before and besides, haven't you always wanted to anyway?

            I actually find it humorous when I school someone in an argument that I am again...

            ... Read Full
            • factoverfallacy (edited 8 years ago)
              +1

              May I suggest you've gotten so little out of people's responses because you've put so little into understanding them? I feel as though you've given my response very short shrift.

              Again as you claim you skimmed and in doing so you made an erroneous generalization. I will explain below as again your points (I still don't really know if you have one) is all over the place. I can't comprehend how asking how they arrived at that answer is a lack of understanding? Asking them to provide incite is the exact opposite not trying to understand.

              Opinion: [...] Bias: [...]As much as I appreciate your taking time out of your day to explain four and seven letter words to me, because apparently I wouldn't've encountered these before and need them explained.

              You apparently needed them to be explained because I am using them correctly as shown.

              There's a problem. Using the system you're describing, if someone else makes a statement, and it doesn't square with your secret homespun mix of dogma,

              Again your lack of understanding of the definitions you are using is comical. If you provide no evidence to support your opinion after being asked numerous times it is bias, prejudice and gibberish. That is a fact. For example, if you were to say Pit bulls are more aggressive than most breeds that is not an opinion but a false fact. And the use of the word Fact is very broad. For example, the National Center for Science education defines fact as: Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as “true.” To quote Stephen Jay Gould who is an American paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, and historian of science“In science, ‘fact’ can only mean ‘confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent. " For an example it is considered a FACT that all humans have 46 chromosomes. However, that can change over time. People still debate the fact that the Earth is Round.

              Am I taking crazy pills or have you gotten 'facts' mixed up with 'axioms' and 'propositions' and 'inferences' and 'beliefs' all at once?

              You really are taking the crazy pill. As per above I am using the word fact and other words just fine.

              However, you keep using the word dogma out of context. [Dogma is a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted] (a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted) Dogma [http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/dogma] (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/dogma) . [A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a religion] (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/dogma) Statement of facts are not a belief nor is an opinion based on verifiable data.

              And if you want to state inference instead of an opinion to try and sound smart it is not working. An inference requires "a statement of fact to interpret, draw logical conclusions from given data, and project implications from the facts". So again I fail to see what you are trying to conclude. We draw inferences from factual observations. In hard sciences, many use the term theory which is defined is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and...

              ... Read Full
            • factoverfallacy (edited 8 years ago)
              +2

              Wow you needed so much correction that Snapzu post ran out of room. Again your reading comprehension is horrid. I was giving him a compliment.

              You state::

              No way, really? I had an inkling of this when /u/RoamingGnome expressed a human, personal sentiment and you 'corrected' him. Which is a bit like seeing a butterfly in the garden and trying, combatively, to solve it with Gaussian elimination.

              His comment here:

              People will comment on how smart or informed I am. I tell them it has nothing to do with me being smart and everything to do with the fact that I can pretty much find any information I need as long as I have my smart phone and a data connection. Yes, doing something as simple as looking something up before spewing nonsense is being smart. Looking something up to ensure accuracy means you are thorough, thirsty and will retain at lease some of the knowledge. So he should stop selling himself short to those people =)

              The definition of smart from various dictionaries: "done with intelligence or careful thought" , " Having or showing intelligence; bright", "clever, witty, or readily effective, as a speaker, speech, rejoinder"

              So just like the rest of your "gibberish", yes that is what it is now, you are trying to call me out on a compliment. Although, smart is subjective, he was being modest and I called him out on it. People deserve recognition just like people deserve to be put in their place. Him using the dictionary makes him a genius compared to this.

              When I start posting please participate either for or against my argument IDC. Just bring those sources with you!!!!!

              Wow, this compliment makes me a horrible human being.

              I should just keep quoting Neil Degrasse Tyson as he deals with this on a regular basis. FYI,even a world-renowned astrophysicist, along with many intelligent people don't get all positive comments. Thought,I would bring that up again to highlight your unsubstantiated opinion.

              Neil Degrasse Tyson: B.o.B is obviously and amusingly wrong in the things he's saying, but he's free and able to say them. That's worth celebrating. There are still many places around the world where opposing the prevailing wisdom comes at great personal cost and risk. So when I see a darling old conspiracy theory being dredged up and so gently euthanized, it makes me smile. It also makes me appreciate the advancement of the so-called developed world: one of the enduring differences between Western democracies and Russia and China is the greater liberty to speak your mind.

              I don't wish to hold up B.o.B as some paragon of free speech. His ramblings border on the delusional, and his encouragement for people to read up on Holocaust denier David Irving is repugnant. But it's because I disagree with his flat Earth beliefs that I want them out in public view. This gives me the opportunity to contest them — civilly — and offers at least the possibility of spreading enlightenment. B.o.B might still feel overwhelmed by the number of people challenging him, but if we all do it in a polite and respectful manner, it might lead to fewer diss tracks and greater solidarity..

              The infamous quote "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing". Ignorance has shown to do harm and if someone chooses to use their free speech to spew incorrect information, I will call them out on it. I might not be even close to as innovative or even smart as Degrasse but I will be sure to spread and...

              ... Read Full
            • AdelleChattre (edited 8 years ago)
              +4
              @factoverfallacy -

              Again your lack of understanding of the definitions you are using is comical.

              Tell me you're not going to try to learn me some more four- and five-letter words. You are? Super.

              For example, the National Center for Science education defines fact as […]

              Good job!

              As per above I am using the word fact and other words just fine.

              Way to go, Champ!

              However, you keep using the word dogma out of context. Dogma is […]

              Yes, because word sense meanings are only allowed within 'contexts' you have personally issued formal, written approvals for two full business days in advance.

              And if you want to state inference instead of an opinion to try and sound smart it is not working.

              What are you: eight, nine?

              Actually, many respect my opinion.

              Sure they do. That's swell, really.

              Wow, I am going to have to call you ignorant at this point.

              Don't go to the trouble. You got that attitude across pretty early. For instance, you're still saying 'hey' in the lounge, and straight-away you can already tell this's going to be a thing with you. As it has been.

              Sorry I am not gullible.

              I get it. You're a bot. I'm solipsizing with RACTER here.

              I sense you might be one of those conspiracy theorists if you are having trouble with anything I am saying.

              You get that a lot, do you? Trouble in social settings? Flak from people that, obviously, are jealous of your greatness, no doubt?

              And in all honesty, my rough draft seems to be more put together than your final one.

              Not that every little thing is a pissing match with you or you're compensating for anything, mind you.

              Wow you needed so much correction that Snapzu post ran out of room.

              Happy I could help. You do seem to have some things you need to work out.

              Again your reading comprehension is horrid.

              You know, I think I could probably have picked up on a few things earlier than I did.

              The definition of smart from various dictionaries: […]

              You just give, and give and give. When is it time for you? For your needs? By this point, you've literally defined the word 'and' for me. Suggestion: if you find yourself needing to condescend so far as to define three- and four-letter words for your correspondent, you're doing it wrong.

              At that point, you can criticize me to your heart's content but please use at least high school level logic.

              Why should I? I'm sure you'll do a far better job pointing out problems than I ever could.

              Alas, this is starting to bore me.

              You’re not the only one, Mister.