• Rothulfossil
    +8

    Why would everyone deserve a living wage?

    Put simply, because everyone is a human being. We have the total wealth to provide for everyone's basic needs, but we don't do it because capitalism. Gotta scrape in every last dime for myself.

    • shiranaihito
      +1

      OK, so if employers have to pay you more because you're a human being, then I guess you'll have to pay more for goods and services because businesses are run by human beings too, and they Deserve more money than they get now too?

      • Rothulfossil
        +6

        Businesses are not human beings, they are an idea. Businesses are run by human beings. Those human beings deserve the same basic rights as the people working for them. Anything extra is not a basic right. So no, businesses do not deserve more money.

        • shiranaihito
          +1

          Those human beings deserve the same basic rights as the people working for them.

          Exactly! So the business-owner-human-beings Deserve to get paid much more than now, and therefore you have to pay double-price for their goods and services. That's fair and just.

          Note that I don't actually believe that. I'm just trying to illustrate why the idea of workers "deserving" more because they're human beings makes no sense.

        • Rothulfossil (edited 8 years ago)
          +1
          @shiranaihito -

          No, you're missing the point. There's a baseline that ALL human beings deserve. Food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, education, INTERNET ACCESS, etc. Anything on top of those basic necessities is a luxury. Business owners get all of that plus more. If the business fails, they deserve to lose those luxuries, but not the basic necessities.

          Right now, workers do not get all of those things as a basic, guaranteed necessity. We're talking about bringing the bar up to the bare minimum.

          Put even simpler, everyone deserves $10. Workers get $6. Business owners get $15. You're arguing that if workers get $4 more so that they get $10, then business owners deserve $4 to get $19. That's not how this works.

        • shiranaihito
          +1
          @Rothulfossil -

          You're arguing that if workers get $4 more so that they get $10, then business owners deserve $4 to get $19. That's not how this works.

          Yeah, that's not how that works, but that is how being objective would work. If everyone deserves more because they're human beings, then they all deserve equally more (regardless of whether they're the employer or the employed)

        • Rothulfossil (edited 8 years ago)
          +2
          @shiranaihito -

          No, you are completely ignoring my point. Everyone does not deserve MORE, everyone deserves a BASELINE. We don't get more money until everyone's basic needs are met. When everyone's cup is full, then you can start buying more cups. The employers' cups are full right now and the employees' are not.

          If everyone gets more at a flat, lump sum, it does nothing to change the inequality.

        • shiranaihito
          -1
          @Rothulfossil -

          I think I'll just go ahead and remove Snapzu and Hubski from my Firefox now.

      • staxofmax
        +2

        Not necessarily. Taxpayers already have to subsidize workers with an income below the poverty line through paying them welfare benefits. If the minimum wage were adjusted so that a full time independent worker making minimum wage would have earnings at just above the poverty line, in theory this would just shift the welfare cost from the taxpayers to employers. Taxpayers would pay less in taxes which would offset the increased cost of goods and services. I'm no economist, but it seems to me that it would be a wash.

        • shiranaihito
          +1

          Um.. I wasn't being serious.

          I was just trying to illustrate why the idea of workers "deserving" more because they're human beings makes no sense.

          But in general, we all want as much as possible for as little as possible. That includes employees and employers alike. That's why people and businesses get paid whatever they can get someone to voluntarily pay for their goods and services.