• ChrisTyler
    +5
    @archmagician -

    But they're not actually doing that much good, at least from a curative standpoint, hence the opioid crisis.

    The goal should be to reduce the total number of people addicted to opioids, not to take all the opioid users from one place and put them somewhere else. I mean this is getting dangerously close to Sponge Bob logic.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for treatment over punishment for users, but I completely disagree that making it easier for them to do drugs is the right way to go about it.

  • Appaloosa (edited 6 years ago)
    +5
    @ChrisTyler -

    Let's assume that the addictions are not wanted, by either the users or society as a whole. Let's assume that addictions are not voluntary, notwithstanding the users own personal choice to use leading to addiction. That kind of life puts many people in jeopardy, including the user. Disease both giving and receiving, crime both giving and receiving...bodily injury, death, economic loss...a whole host of unintended consequences comes from addictions.

    So controlling the dispensing does serve society better than not. It saves lives, prevents disease, lessens economic loss and brings those chained in addiction at least the contact to begin a very long and difficult road to recovery. With out that contact, they are hopeless.

  • drunkenninja
    +4
    @Appaloosa -

    Well said, and exactly why these supervised drug injection sites are so damn important.

  • ChrisTyler
    +5
    @Appaloosa -

    Yes, we can all agree that drug addiction is bad for society, but this place isn’t fighting drug addiction it’s just managing it.

    As I said before, the goal should be to reduce the total number of persons addicted to drugs. This program doesn’t do that, not in any meaningful way. If Insite were part of a mandatory treatment protocol, where members had to progress along a structured program designed to get them off of drugs completely, then that would be one thing, but it’s not. This program is no more effective than putting an AA pamphlet at the end of a bar and hoping for the best.

    And there are better programs (that would actually produce results) that society could focus on. Things like: Law enforcement initiatives that offer amnesty for drug turn-ins (something I’ve been wanting here in the US for years), adult education programs on dealing with family and friends who are suffering from addiction, or even- and I fucking hate admitting this, faith based programs that have had decent results in fighting addiction using the church community as a support structure.

    There are plenty of ways to get people assistance and help fight drug addiction, without the Government helping them shoot up.

  • AdelleChattre
    +6
    @ChrisTyler -

    this place isn’t fighting drug addiction it’s just managing it

    If ‘fighting’ addiction is your tarbaby, let ‘im have it. A place like Insite mitigates risk, reduces harm and prevents the spread of disease. Make all the mean faces you want at heroin addicts, but at the end of the day, there will still be addicts… only with places like Insite there’ll be less HIV and Hepatitis C in a seething ferment around your family and friends.

    the goal should be to reduce the total number of persons addicted to drugs.

    You can have a ‘war on drugs’ and you can have courageous policy like Insite. They’re not mutually exclusive, even if only one of them does anything besides keeping prices up.

    If Insite were part of a mandatory treatment protocol, where members had to progress

    That’s the great thing about the War on Drugs. So many things’ve already failed. Or, like Methadone, succeeded disasterously.

    This program is no more effective than putting an AA pamphlet at the end of a bar and hoping for the best.

    No more effective at what? Realizing your mythopoeic dream of automagically ending heroin addiction? Let’s evaluate Insite against other things that will never work, like telling Trumplestilskin his name, or securing the poppy fields of Afghanistan from the Taliban, or having a Cabinet member head the Office of Naqtional Drug Control Policy.

    Law enforcement initiatives that offer amnesty for drug turn-ins

    You’re not serious with this, are you? “Hey gang, let’s turn those dopesick frowns upside down and hand the only thing keeping you together over to the police and see how grateful they are!”

    adult education programs on dealing with family and friends who are suffering from addiction

    Al-anon isn’t a mutually exclusive option from programs like Insite, but I’ll agree it could be mainstreamed.

    I fucking hate admitting this, faith based programs

    I thought you’d already dismissed AA above.

    These nostrums aren’t going to cure opiate addiction any more than Insite will. And that’s if you allow yourself to think of it as a sourge rather than the longstanding policy it really is. At some point, beyond the absurdity and denial, it’s worth trying what works to achieve what one can.

  • ChrisTyler
    +4
    @AdelleChattre -

    The issue here is that you, and the people who support programs like Insite, are laboring under the delusion that you're actually accomplishing something when you're not. You're simply sweeping a problem under the rug and declaring victory. Society should be working to reduce the number of people addicted to drugs, Insite does nothing to accomplish that goal. Insite is nothing more than society saying: "Fuck it, it's too hard to fight drug addiction so we're just gonna quit trying". It's the path of least resistance. Now if that's the kind of "progress" you're comfortable with then I guess there's no changing your mind, but personally I think we should expect more. Societies are better than that, even if they are Canadians (It's a joke people, relax).

  • ChrisTyler
    +4
    @AdelleChattre -

    On an unrelated note, did they stop highlighting upvotes? Because I upvoted this post but both arrows still show grey.

  • AdelleChattre
    +2
    @ChrisTyler -

    It's just that by 'society fighting' I'm pretty sure you mean letting first responders deal with the mounting human toll in its sundry and various macabre forms while being helpless to address the underlying problems in any meaningful way. The 'fight' metaphor's broken.

  • AdelleChattre
    +3
    @ChrisTyler -

    The way I hear it, Snapzu is more CPU-bound than traffic-bound and some significant savings were made by not making so many database calls for vote statuses. It'll still show correctly when you go to the snap itself, however. Another thing you may've missed in the meantime is that now there's now a rough equivalent of Reddit Gold. Applying Snapzu Platinum liberally around the face and neck may help with the CPU costs. Known side-effects include covering our hosts' hefty bar tab and moderate-to-persistent star alignment in accordance with prophecy.

  • Appaloosa
    +4
    @ChrisTyler -

    Nobody I know here would ever downvote a discussion Chris. To downvote here is a not part of the culture here, though anyone is free to do so.

  • Appaloosa
    +5
    @Appaloosa -

    Well maybe Adelle would....kidding, kidding, don't kill me!

    • ChrisTyler
      +4
      @Appaloosa -

      I'm a conservative, Trump-supporting, Republican on the Internet... trust me, I've made my peace with the downvotes. lol