So then where was your "pissed off injun" when the Indians were there in July? Where was he for the roughly 120 other times the Indians have come to Toronto to play the Blue Jays? Cleveland has had the same name for over 100 years. The Chief Wahoo logo has been associated with the team for over 80 years. Yet you're telling us that it's only now, in the middle of the ALCS, that this guy suddenly felt the need to do anything? If the Blue Jays were winning 2 - 0 instead of losing, then I seriously doubt that we'd being hearing about any legal opposition to the team's name.
This is what this Indian does all the time. He may not even be into sports. I believe he did this now to get the most publicity and he got it ,especially in Cleveland. I do not agree with his reasoning for doing it now,but i am now seeing why he chose to do it now.
Publicity is irrelevant to the law, something is either legal or it's not. You only need publicity if you're trying to sway public opinion, and if he thinks that filing an injunction in a Canadian court that effectively calls the residents of the second largest city in Ohio racists is going to win him any support, then he is seriously detached from reality.
Or you are. What's the story: you figure the Cleveland Indians "already got away with it?" That grotesque bigotry appreciates with age? That if every Indians fan is guilty then nobody's guilty? Myself, I can't begin to imagine how Indians fans think it's up to them to decide whether it's offensive. Then again, there's lots I don't get. Like how Jeep sells Cherokees and none of that goes to the Cherokee. Or how Urban Outfitters got away with selling things as Navajo for years that had nothing whatsoever to do with anything Navajo. Chief Wahoo, on the other hand, is patently offensive right on the very face of it. Prima facie.
Chief Wahoo, on the other hand, is patently offensive right on the very face of it
To you.
If you want to go on a crusade to sanitize product names and company logos be my guest, but you need to disabuse yourself of the notion that your opinion matters to anyone but you, and perhaps the few people who share your view. The overwhelming majority of people don't find the name offensive, and the reason we know they don't is because if they did, they'd call it something else.
You don't get to decide if it's offensive. It's deeply offensive. Honestly, I think you'd be surprised how many people can see right off it's clearly bigotry.
You can decide that's the example you want to set. For your kids. For your town. To the world. You have. That example was clearly set for you.
Now, you can say "that's just the way it is." That's been said about plenty of bigoted forms of oppression. Every once in a while though, people — even people who came up from within a system like that — realize they could do better. It's even happened within baseball before.
There will be a time when everyone recognizes Chief Wahoo is a repugnant vestige of an ugly, and proud, institution of white supremacy. You and Cleveland Indians fans like you, who think you're not racist despite your loyalty to your own particular brand of white supremacy, may wonder why it was ever so impirtant to you.
Me and, as you say, the few people that agree with me, will try not to judge you too harshly. You're just backward. It's all you know, yet.
People on the rez don't give a shit about your standings. A history of genocide, white supremacy and structural racism of the kind embodied by the "Cleveland Indians" has more relevance. To injuns, and frankly to the world.
Really? You think the only thing standing between people "on the rez" and prosperity is the name of a sports franchise? If tomorrow they changed the name to the Cleveland Buckeyes, what exactly is it you think changes? Let's say all the teams with Native American names and mascots decide to change, exactly what difference do you think that's gonna make "on the rez"? Rampant unemployment, crippling poverty, a failed education system, and a skyrocketing suicide rate, but you're right, we should totally worry about what Cleveland calls its baseball team because that'll make all the difference.
Oh, your 'what-about-ery' has blindsided and confused me, terribly! All-of-a-sudden Chief Wahoo is no longer as grossly offensive as it so very obviously has been for all of its seventy-odd years. You, your crew of strawmen arguments and your beloved racist caricature triumph yet again! Boy, is my face red. Let's say your team did the decent thing, moved past its trademarked bigot pride, and changed its branding. How does that put you out one whit? Or is that simply the stew you prefer to simmer in?
Lol, the typical progressive nonsense, always fighting to make the world a better place... so long as you don't have to actually do anything. With the time and money this guy spent filing this pointless injunction- and make no mistake, it was entirely pointless, he could've: Started a mentoring program, bought some books or school supplies, bought items for direct donation to needy native families, or any one of the dozens of other things he could've done instead of wasting everyone's time. It's self-serving activism, he gets to feel all warm and fuzzy without actually getting his hands dirty. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
Whereas the real heroes wear redface and warbonnets and pay those kind of prices for beer? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't actually play the game for the Cleveland Indians, do you? You pay, is that right? To delight in the so-prestigious brand we know as Chief Wahoo?
Tell me, who are you to shit on the man who just built the new National Museum of the American Indian in D.C. and the Canadian Museum of History, huh Champ?
Tell me, who are you to shit on the man who just built the new National Museum of the American Indian in D.C. and the Canadian Museum of History, huh Champ?
Exactly my point: Native Americans are dealing with crippling socioeconomic challenges and this guy's building fucking museums. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns. And as for who I am, I'm just a guy calling him out for what he is: A grandstanding, self-serving, jackass who's more concerned with looking like he's doing something than he is with actually doing something.
I don't know man, you might want to give a bit more credit to Cardinal than that. He certainly can relate, and has tried to bring to light his native background more than me, or you, or most others I know.
So then where was your "pissed off injun" when the Indians were there in July? Where was he for the roughly 120 other times the Indians have come to Toronto to play the Blue Jays? Cleveland has had the same name for over 100 years. The Chief Wahoo logo has been associated with the team for over 80 years. Yet you're telling us that it's only now, in the middle of the ALCS, that this guy suddenly felt the need to do anything? If the Blue Jays were winning 2 - 0 instead of losing, then I seriously doubt that we'd being hearing about any legal opposition to the team's name.
This is what this Indian does all the time. He may not even be into sports. I believe he did this now to get the most publicity and he got it ,especially in Cleveland. I do not agree with his reasoning for doing it now,but i am now seeing why he chose to do it now.
Publicity is irrelevant to the law, something is either legal or it's not. You only need publicity if you're trying to sway public opinion, and if he thinks that filing an injunction in a Canadian court that effectively calls the residents of the second largest city in Ohio racists is going to win him any support, then he is seriously detached from reality.
Tell me you don't feel even a twinge there might be something wrong with redface.
Or you are. What's the story: you figure the Cleveland Indians "already got away with it?" That grotesque bigotry appreciates with age? That if every Indians fan is guilty then nobody's guilty? Myself, I can't begin to imagine how Indians fans think it's up to them to decide whether it's offensive. Then again, there's lots I don't get. Like how Jeep sells Cherokees and none of that goes to the Cherokee. Or how Urban Outfitters got away with selling things as Navajo for years that had nothing whatsoever to do with anything Navajo. Chief Wahoo, on the other hand, is patently offensive right on the very face of it. Prima facie.
To you.
If you want to go on a crusade to sanitize product names and company logos be my guest, but you need to disabuse yourself of the notion that your opinion matters to anyone but you, and perhaps the few people who share your view. The overwhelming majority of people don't find the name offensive, and the reason we know they don't is because if they did, they'd call it something else.
You don't get to decide if it's offensive. It's deeply offensive. Honestly, I think you'd be surprised how many people can see right off it's clearly bigotry.
You can decide that's the example you want to set. For your kids. For your town. To the world. You have. That example was clearly set for you.
Now, you can say "that's just the way it is." That's been said about plenty of bigoted forms of oppression. Every once in a while though, people — even people who came up from within a system like that — realize they could do better. It's even happened within baseball before.
There will be a time when everyone recognizes Chief Wahoo is a repugnant vestige of an ugly, and proud, institution of white supremacy. You and Cleveland Indians fans like you, who think you're not racist despite your loyalty to your own particular brand of white supremacy, may wonder why it was ever so impirtant to you.
Me and, as you say, the few people that agree with me, will try not to judge you too harshly. You're just backward. It's all you know, yet.
You go right on ahead and judge. Meanwhile I, and the overwhelming majority of society will continue to ignore you.
And for the record, I'm a Marlins fan.
People on the rez don't give a shit about your standings. A history of genocide, white supremacy and structural racism of the kind embodied by the "Cleveland Indians" has more relevance. To injuns, and frankly to the world.
Really? You think the only thing standing between people "on the rez" and prosperity is the name of a sports franchise? If tomorrow they changed the name to the Cleveland Buckeyes, what exactly is it you think changes? Let's say all the teams with Native American names and mascots decide to change, exactly what difference do you think that's gonna make "on the rez"? Rampant unemployment, crippling poverty, a failed education system, and a skyrocketing suicide rate, but you're right, we should totally worry about what Cleveland calls its baseball team because that'll make all the difference.
Oh, your 'what-about-ery' has blindsided and confused me, terribly! All-of-a-sudden Chief Wahoo is no longer as grossly offensive as it so very obviously has been for all of its seventy-odd years. You, your crew of strawmen arguments and your beloved racist caricature triumph yet again! Boy, is my face red. Let's say your team did the decent thing, moved past its trademarked bigot pride, and changed its branding. How does that put you out one whit? Or is that simply the stew you prefer to simmer in?
Lol, the typical progressive nonsense, always fighting to make the world a better place... so long as you don't have to actually do anything. With the time and money this guy spent filing this pointless injunction- and make no mistake, it was entirely pointless, he could've: Started a mentoring program, bought some books or school supplies, bought items for direct donation to needy native families, or any one of the dozens of other things he could've done instead of wasting everyone's time. It's self-serving activism, he gets to feel all warm and fuzzy without actually getting his hands dirty. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
Whereas the real heroes wear redface and warbonnets and pay those kind of prices for beer? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't actually play the game for the Cleveland Indians, do you? You pay, is that right? To delight in the so-prestigious brand we know as Chief Wahoo?
Tell me, who are you to shit on the man who just built the new National Museum of the American Indian in D.C. and the Canadian Museum of History, huh Champ?
Exactly my point: Native Americans are dealing with crippling socioeconomic challenges and this guy's building fucking museums. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns. And as for who I am, I'm just a guy calling him out for what he is: A grandstanding, self-serving, jackass who's more concerned with looking like he's doing something than he is with actually doing something.
I don't know man, you might want to give a bit more credit to Cardinal than that. He certainly can relate, and has tried to bring to light his native background more than me, or you, or most others I know.