• staxofmax
    +6

    I think our lack of understanding of the nature of our existence is ultimately why I'm hostile to many of transhumanism's aims. Disclaimer, the following is a bunch of pseudo-existential garbage so if you have no interest in continuing reading I understand completely.

    If our consciousness is illusory and merely a byproduct of our brain's internal processes and sensory input then my consternation is misplaced. However, I don't like the idea that our experience is merely due to a mishmash of hormones and electrical signals bouncing around in a lump of nerve bundles. I like to think that consciousness and qualia is a manifestation or something that is external to our biological bodies. I don't know if I believe it, that's too strong of a word, but I like the thought of it. For whatever reason that incorporeal process has an attachment to the biological components of our mind, and the separation from the biological mind that comes from death is an integral and fundamental component to our existence. My fear is that by extending our physical existence indefinitely we'd be trading a temporary prison for an eternal one.

    I'm probably wrong though. I have no solid rational basis to believe any of this, but I'm ok with that. But say there is a 1 in 10,000 chance that our nature is dualistic. Is transhumanism worth the risk if it fundamentally perverts our existence?

    • spaceghoti
      +5

      I'm probably wrong though. I have no solid rational basis to believe any of this, but I'm ok with that. But say there is a 1 in 10,000 chance that our nature is dualistic. Is transhumanism worth the risk if it fundamentally perverts our existence?

      I'm going to be honest here, I think you're wrong. There's no evidence to support an external/dualistic explanation for consciousness; all the evidence points to consciousness being a manifestation of sufficiently dense neural tissue. But let's assume you're correct. I don't think any transhumanists are asserting that everyone must necessarily undergo the transformation whether or not they want it. Like any other elective procedure it would be your choice whether or not you partake of it. If you feel your immortal soul would be imperiled by it, you wouldn't have to do it. You could refuse the risk and allow yourself to pass onto whatever afterlife you felt was waiting for you.

      Alternatively, even if souls are real and someone undergoes the procedure the worst that can happen is that the original en-souled body dies and goes on to the afterlife while whatever information the process is able to secure continues on in an artificial body.

      • AdelleChattre
        +4

        That's some cold comfort, there.

      • staxofmax
        +3

        If our existence is purely physical and temporary then what's the point of life extension? I'd assert that there would have to be some dualistic component to our consciousness for an upload to serve its intended purpose. Otherwise at best it would be destruction of our consciousness and creation of a facsimile. If the human mind is just the result of sufficiently dense neural tissue and nothing more, then what is so special about it that makes it worth preserving?

        Why not just focus on the development of AI? If we're intent on creating a lasting legacy it seems to me better to start with a blank slate without all our cultural, instinctual, and evolutionary baggage.

      • spaceghoti
        +4
        @AdelleChattre -

        Meh. I don't expect to have to make that choice before I die anyway. And as I said before, I doubt I could survive more than ten thousand years or so without going insane. I've never seen that reality has ever cared about our comfort, that's our own obsession.

      • spaceghoti
        +2
        @staxofmax -

        If our existence is purely physical and temporary then what's the point of life extension?

        Because it's purely physical and temporary. Limitations tend to increase the value of things in our minds. Besides, what's the point of more experience except to experience more? Are you going to turn down a good meal just because it will be gone when you're done?

        Ultimately, it's irrelevant. Whether or not I want there to be a dual existence has no bearing on whether or not it's true. Following the evidence we currently have available leads me to the conclusion that we do not possess a dual existence.

        If the human mind is just the result of sufficiently dense neural tissue and nothing more, then what is so special about it that makes it worth preserving?

        That's up to us to decide. If you don't feel there's anything about you that's worth preserving then you don't have to. Other people may feel they have more they want to do or more they can contribute. I wouldn't mind spending another hundred years coming up with the perfect novel. I would find great satisfaction in the act of creating that. In the end this isn't about what we want, it's about what we can do.

        Why not just focus on the development of AI? If we're intent on creating a lasting legacy it seems to me better to start with a blank slate without all our cultural, instinctual, and evolutionary baggage.

        I believe the efforts are related. If we can create an AI then we'll have taken another step toward preserving our own intellect. Maybe you're right, it'd be better to start off with a blank slate but again, I'm not a transhumanist. I can't answer that question.