I don't see any of that in this article. It was the parent comment that jumped up and started shouting that everyone is blaming whitey, which is as hackneyed a response as actually blaming whitey.
And off-topic, but I'm curious to hear how you think there's no white advantage anymore.
I agree that institutionalized white advantage has been curbed significantly with the introduction of things like scholarships for minorities and laws that make it illegal to hire people based on race. But that these laws exist in the first place shows that racism is still prevalent enough of a cultural issue that we need to take measures to end it. And even those aren't always enough to stop racism in the workplace - for instance, people with "white" names on their resumes are called back more often than people with "black" names.
So when there are no longer laws in the books to prevent racism, and yet we all act in a way that treats everyone as equals, then I think I'll say that there is no white advantage. Until then, I think there's enough of a cultural problem that it bleeds over into other areas of life, and negatively impact your quality of life.
But, like you said, there's an undeniable advantage to being rich, and the poverty rates are much higher for minorities. So I feel that more measures that help people escape poverty - whether they're minorities or not - will do more to fix the cultural issues of racism than any number of government programs that tackle it directly can.
My point was that we don't actually need to be reminded of slavery in 2015. Quite the contrary, we should all just forget about it and move on, including black people.
This has nothing to do with slavery. It is pointing out the reality of the situation of the time for black people (years after the emancipation of slaves).
It has a modern equivalent: the sitdown chat every black boy has with his parents about how to behave with police officers.
Oh, right. I wasn't paying enough attention. Either way, the idea of bringing the guidebook up is to make us white people feel bad about something we had no part in.
Usually it's slavery that's brought up for the same purpose.
As for the police, "Mountainspirit" is largely correct, and black people are way overrepresented in violent crime statistics in the US. Feel free to look it up. But that's a perfectly fine reason for the (well-meaning) police to pay more attention to black people in particular.
You have a personal problem. If you can't keep it together well enough to come across historical evidence of oppression without going off on a tear about how oppressed you are by it as a Caucasian male, you're going to have to accept it — you’re a troll.
Nothing’s a problem until it’s a problem, and what do you know? you’ve got one.
You’re going to have to deal with this for yourself. As much as I appreciate you inviting us to your non sequitur pity party with this tantrum you’ve thrown above, odds are what’s underneath your torment here are personal issues no one here’s going to be able to solve for you. We could maybe help you find an affordable counselor or therapist where you live. We could maybe give you ideas around questions you could work on answering, like why you need to feel sorry for yourself. Ultimately, though, you’re the one who’s going to have to deal with what’s really bothering you.
Because if it’s the mere historical truth of black history or repression and prejudice through history, then I’m sorry to be the one to tell you but not only are you a particular kind of troll but you’re mentally ill.
I apologize for calling /u/shiranaihito's post "mindless 'SJW'-bashing" -- I lost my cool, seeing how the Snapzu I saw as a welcoming, nice and friendly place suddenly smells like the really bad pits of Reddit.
this could have been a great peacekeeping remark to ground everyone
Okay, here's my suggestion: You go and make a well-thought-out remark, which takes us back on the track of civilized discussion. Coherent, eloquent, nicely formatted (an empty line separates paragraphs), without insults.
This type of holier than thou, white knighting, look at how smart I am stuff
Wow. You assume a lot about me by just reading a single post. Which is as wrong as me reading a lot into /u/shiranaihto's post. Maybe we should all take a step back, and try to discuss, instead of putting people into classifications and then attacking those.
[...] Reddit! I actually spelled it out for you since you mistyped it as Snapzu
Sorry for being dense, but I have no idea what you are talking about. I posted a link to Reddit. Spelled "reddit". But I guess that part of your post wasn't important.
You are right, the "thought out" paragraph actually doesn't sound as constructive as it did in my head :( Be ensured that it wasn't supposed to sound offensive or mocking.
This whole thread is weird and totally not something I've come to expect at Snapzu. I only joined about a month ago, but I definitely noticed an exponential spike in the drama here lately. I really hope the trend doesn't continue.
My kneejerk reaction was to downvote your comment, but then I started thinking. My wife and I were talking about racial issues last night (disclaimer; I am a white American male of northern European ancestry). She had received in a facebook feed from a family member 11 Things White People Need To Realize About Race. I expressed frustration at the tone of the article with its implication that if white people were to change their attitudes then racism would be cured. In hindsight I realized that my emotional response to that article is similar to yours.
For me when I engage in the dialog around race I feel there is an expectation that white people need to take on the burden of guilt. I don't really know how to feel about this. I acknowledge the fact that I have been the beneficiary of better treatment because I am a white male, but I don't feel any particular guilt about it nor am I convinced that I should feel guilty about it. I don't even know if people are really expecting me to feel guilty about it and I'm just being hypersensitive. The atmosphere surrounding this issue is so toxic that I don't know if I'm capable of viewing it objectively. When I read about some of the more divisive issues like the Michael Brown shooting I'll admit that I get defensive. I don't know if that defensiveness in me is racist. Some would certainly say it is and they might be right.
I think the biggest problem preventing society from making real progress towards racial equality is that it's such a loaded issue. I don't see any way there can be an large scale open and transparent dialogue, at least not in the near future. Look at yourself; you gave us a frank assessment of your feelings about the issue and are being torn apart because of it. I think we all need the freedom to air our grievances, legitimate or not, before we can have a meaningful conversation about our experiences with race. And if we can't be truthful without fear then what's the point? You're not addressing racism, you're just suppressing it.
Now I don't agree with your sentiment. But I don't think you need therapy as some have suggested, and I think I understand where your frustration is coming from. My struggle is trying to resist my defensive reaction to racial issues and I think it's helping me see the issues with a little more clarity. Because it's impossible to open yourself up to the experience of others if you're constantly in a defensive posture.
In hindsight I realized that my emotional response to that article is similar to yours.
Actually, my response was not emotional. At least not wrt. the article itself. I meant to imply that the article serves no real purpose, because it's basically just stirring up White Guilt even though there's no reason for the vast majority of Westerners alive today to feel any.
White people in today's Western societies are most decidedly not racist. We're so hypersensitive about racial issues, and will ostracize anyone for showing even a hint of racism that it's simply absurd to suggest that we are the problem.
For me when I engage in the dialog around race I feel there is an expectation that white people need to take on the burden of guilt.
Yes, this is the problem I was snarkily bringing up.
I don't really know how to feel about this.
How about.. annoyed and frustrated by the irrationality and double-standards etc?
I think the biggest problem preventing society from making real progress towards racial equality is that it's such a loaded issue.
Well, in a way we already have racial equality. Except maybe for the "affirmative action" stuff, where black people are given advantages over white people, for example. But in the way people usually mean "racial equality" (implying that white people should not be "higher class"), we're already there.. and perhaps even past that, into non-equal territory again.
Because it's impossible to open yourself up to the experience of others if you're constantly in a defensive posture.
We should also remember to feel bad about pressuring women to wear corsets back whenever the hell that was happening!
Remember, it's always the White Heterosexual Male's fault!!
Wait. Explain again how this examination of a historical document is an attack on yourself / white heterosexual males?
We're not allowed to look at history now?
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Regardless of who's fault it is one thing is clear: it is everyone's responsibility to change a culture of injustice.
My point was that we don't actually need to be reminded of slavery in 2015. Quite the contrary, we should all just forget about it and move on, including black people.
(Note that this comment is, in fact, not racist)
This has nothing to do with slavery. It is pointing out the reality of the situation of the time for black people (years after the emancipation of slaves).
It has a modern equivalent: the sitdown chat every black boy has with his parents about how to behave with police officers.
Oh, right. I wasn't paying enough attention. Either way, the idea of bringing the guidebook up is to make us white people feel bad about something we had no part in.
Usually it's slavery that's brought up for the same purpose.
As for the police, "Mountainspirit" is largely correct, and black people are way overrepresented in violent crime statistics in the US. Feel free to look it up. But that's a perfectly fine reason for the (well-meaning) police to pay more attention to black people in particular.
[This comment was removed]
You have a personal problem. If you can't keep it together well enough to come across historical evidence of oppression without going off on a tear about how oppressed you are by it as a Caucasian male, you're going to have to accept it — you’re a troll.
Nothing’s a problem until it’s a problem, and what do you know? you’ve got one.
You’re going to have to deal with this for yourself. As much as I appreciate you inviting us to your non sequitur pity party with this tantrum you’ve thrown above, odds are what’s underneath your torment here are personal issues no one here’s going to be able to solve for you. We could maybe help you find an affordable counselor or therapist where you live. We could maybe give you ideas around questions you could work on answering, like why you need to feel sorry for yourself. Ultimately, though, you’re the one who’s going to have to deal with what’s really bothering you.
Because if it’s the mere historical truth of black history or repression and prejudice through history, then I’m sorry to be the one to tell you but not only are you a particular kind of troll but you’re mentally ill.
Can you please stop inviting me to play your games, Mr(s?). Psychopath?
Are you sure you're not lost? The place where mindless "SJW"-bashing is happening is over there.
The link /u/tukka has posted is interesting. Please don't consider everything related to racism as a call-to-arms against "White Heterosexual Males".
I'm fortunate enough to not even know what "SJW" stands for. But no, I'm not lost.
Social Justice Warrior
[This comment was removed]
Oh, alright. "Social Justice Warrior". It's actually the SJW's that tend to be mindless.
I see it this way:
That's a pretty good stance, but I doubt you'd have actually participated in the slave trade, unless you really are a veritable cunt.
I've never seen a comment in the negatives before. It's odd.
This whole thread is weird and totally not something I've come to expect at Snapzu. I only joined about a month ago, but I definitely noticed an exponential spike in the drama here lately. I really hope the trend doesn't continue.
My kneejerk reaction was to downvote your comment, but then I started thinking. My wife and I were talking about racial issues last night (disclaimer; I am a white American male of northern European ancestry). She had received in a facebook feed from a family member 11 Things White People Need To Realize About Race. I expressed frustration at the tone of the article with its implication that if white people were to change their attitudes then racism would be cured. In hindsight I realized that my emotional response to that article is similar to yours.
For me when I engage in the dialog around race I feel there is an expectation that white people need to take on the burden of guilt. I don't really know how to feel about this. I acknowledge the fact that I have been the beneficiary of better treatment because I am a white male, but I don't feel any particular guilt about it nor am I convinced that I should feel guilty about it. I don't even know if people are really expecting me to feel guilty about it and I'm just being hypersensitive. The atmosphere surrounding this issue is so toxic that I don't know if I'm capable of viewing it objectively. When I read about some of the more divisive issues like the Michael Brown shooting I'll admit that I get defensive. I don't know if that defensiveness in me is racist. Some would certainly say it is and they might be right.
I think the biggest problem preventing society from making real progress towards racial equality is that it's such a loaded issue. I don't see any way there can be an large scale open and transparent dialogue, at least not in the near future. Look at yourself; you gave us a frank assessment of your feelings about the issue and are being torn apart because of it. I think we all need the freedom to air our grievances, legitimate or not, before we can have a meaningful conversation about our experiences with race. And if we can't be truthful without fear then what's the point? You're not addressing racism, you're just suppressing it.
Now I don't agree with your sentiment. But I don't think you need therapy as some have suggested, and I think I understand where your frustration is coming from. My struggle is trying to resist my defensive reaction to racial issues and I think it's helping me see the issues with a little more clarity. Because it's impossible to open yourself up to the experience of others if you're constantly in a defensive posture.
If I get it all figured out I'll let you know.
Actually, my response was not emotional. At least not wrt. the article itself. I meant to imply that the article serves no real purpose, because it's basically just stirring up White Guilt even though there's no reason for the vast majority of Westerners alive today to feel any.
White people in today's Western societies are most decidedly not racist. We're so hypersensitive about racial issues, and will ostracize anyone for showing even a hint of racism that it's simply absurd to suggest that we are the problem.
Yes, this is the problem I was snarkily bringing up.
How about.. annoyed and frustrated by the irrationality and double-standards etc?
Well, in a way we already have racial equality. Except maybe for the "affirmative action" stuff, where black people are given advantages over white people, for example. But in the way people usually mean "racial equality" (implying that white people should not be "higher class"), we're already there.. and perhaps even past that, into non-equal territory again.
Good point.
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