Sure some forms of the former are better desired by some members of society than others, but they don't signify a deep history and continuing struggle for equality in a large social structure of power, where certain groups have always landed on the subversive. There isn't a culture of oppression around baldness. There isn't a history of oppression for bald people. So using insults pertaining to baldness is in no way, shape or form the same as using gender or racial slurs.
This is a good way of wording this. It often seems hypocritical for women to be offended by a man calling her a cunt or bitch when she can call him a dick. But the fact is, women have had a very recent history of being oppressed (and still are). The same goes for calling a black person a nigger and a black person calling a white person a honky or cracker. Black people have a recent history of oppression (and still are), so it means a lot more.
So, bring up another subject from reddit, how does calling someone fat fit in to this? Does it depend on the circumstances? Where do these slurs fit on the scale? Have obese people been oppressed?
Thanks for the opportunity to explore this topic!
Edit: I'd be remiss not to link Louis C.K.'s take on offensive words (NSFW language).
There is a growing body of academic literature on fatshaming and fatphobia, and the question of how that fits into the discourse of oppression is very open to debate.
Generally, I would say most of us agree that it is distasteful and wrong to mock, ridicule and bully people because of their weight. It is definitely a form of discrimination that should not be tolerated. That said, I can't place my finger on where it falls in terms of oppression. I would be uncomfortable saying that this is less important than issues of race and gender, but perhaps less rooted in deeply conditioned historical social structures in the same way?
As a fat person who has ridden the yo-yo a few times, I can definitely say I face more discrimination while fat. Does it rise to the level of oppression? I can't say yet. I think if society keeps going in our current direction it will become oppression.
As an overweight man (also yo-yo a bit) in the United States, I don't experience discrimination more or less depending on weight. I also don't think that society, at least in the United States, is trending in the direction of oppression of overweight men. Now for women, I would more likely believe it.
"More than two-thirds (68.8 percent) of adults are considered to be overweight or obese. More than one-third (35.7 percent) of adults are considered to be obese. More than 1 in 20 (6.3 percent) have extreme obesity. Almost 3 in 4 men (74 percent) are considered to be overweight or obese." - source
I think that it is hard to claim oppression of a group that is over 2/3rds the population.
Again, women are certainly treated differently. And again, I'd be remiss not to link one of the most amazing clips of the show Louie. "So did the Fat Lady"
I think how much you see may depend on where you are. I feel like I experience less of it when I travel to the middle of the country, as opposed to CA or NY.
When I'm fat I have to dress better or I get treated worse. Soda refills are easy to get as a thin person, no matter how I'm dressed, but when I'm fat and dressed sloppy my soda goes empty a lot. People on the street will politely move out of my way if I'm neat and tidy while fat, but they'll just ignore me coming if I'm sloppily dressed. When I'm fat and dressed sloppy I'm confirming every stereotype people have of a lazy fat slob and that often carries over into how they treat me. (Side note: this gives me a very small window into what it must be like to be black, and have to actively fight the stereotypes of your race. I channel these experiences and thoughts into building empathy for them.)
I agree with you that women have it worse. After the birth of our child my wife would get comments like, "I didn't even realize you were pregnant" which ends up being depressingly similar to the situation in the video you linked. In their mind they're paying a compliment, "oh, you didn't even gain any weight!" but all my wife hears is, "you were fat and got fatter so I didn't even notice." At that point the only socially acceptable thing she can do is smile and say nothing, even though she really wants to just lash out and burst into tears.
Considering that the majority of Americans are currently overweight, does it change the significance of fatshaming any when it's a minority group (i'm assuming most of the fatshamers are of lesser weight) doing the oppressing?
Systematic oppression does not in any way need to be directed from the majority group to a minority group. Take, for example, South African Apartheid, where a minority white population was oppressing multiple other ethnic groups. If we're talking about systematic oppression, all that matters is that the relatively small group with power in the society feels and acts negatively towards a some group of Others.
As far as weight goes, there is apparent some research which indicates being overweight significantly impacts your ability to climb the corporate ladder, which is a common theme among other oppressed group. It obviously isn't the same as race or gender, as someone who is overweight can (in some cases) change their weight, while someone who is Black can't change their skin colour, but they are definitely similar issues.
I don't know. In America at least, I would equate calling a man a dick with calling a woman a bitch. I often see 'oppression' listed as the reason why insults and discrimination can go one way, but not the other. At that point, it doesn't seem like people want to right a wrong, but they want revenge.
I don't have a staked interest in calling people bitches or dicks or whatever, but isn't stating that it's not ok for one group to do something because of their gender/race/religion discrimination? How is it not?
This is a good way of wording this. It often seems hypocritical for women to be offended by a man calling her a cunt or bitch when she can call him a dick. But the fact is, women have had a very recent history of being oppressed (and still are). The same goes for calling a black person a nigger and a black person calling a white person a honky or cracker. Black people have a recent history of oppression (and still are), so it means a lot more.
So, bring up another subject from reddit, how does calling someone fat fit in to this? Does it depend on the circumstances? Where do these slurs fit on the scale? Have obese people been oppressed?
Thanks for the opportunity to explore this topic!
Edit: I'd be remiss not to link Louis C.K.'s take on offensive words (NSFW language).
There is a growing body of academic literature on fatshaming and fatphobia, and the question of how that fits into the discourse of oppression is very open to debate. Generally, I would say most of us agree that it is distasteful and wrong to mock, ridicule and bully people because of their weight. It is definitely a form of discrimination that should not be tolerated. That said, I can't place my finger on where it falls in terms of oppression. I would be uncomfortable saying that this is less important than issues of race and gender, but perhaps less rooted in deeply conditioned historical social structures in the same way?
As a fat person who has ridden the yo-yo a few times, I can definitely say I face more discrimination while fat. Does it rise to the level of oppression? I can't say yet. I think if society keeps going in our current direction it will become oppression.
As an overweight man (also yo-yo a bit) in the United States, I don't experience discrimination more or less depending on weight. I also don't think that society, at least in the United States, is trending in the direction of oppression of overweight men. Now for women, I would more likely believe it.
"More than two-thirds (68.8 percent) of adults are considered to be overweight or obese. More than one-third (35.7 percent) of adults are considered to be obese. More than 1 in 20 (6.3 percent) have extreme obesity. Almost 3 in 4 men (74 percent) are considered to be overweight or obese." - source
I think that it is hard to claim oppression of a group that is over 2/3rds the population.
Again, women are certainly treated differently. And again, I'd be remiss not to link one of the most amazing clips of the show Louie. "So did the Fat Lady"
I think how much you see may depend on where you are. I feel like I experience less of it when I travel to the middle of the country, as opposed to CA or NY.
When I'm fat I have to dress better or I get treated worse. Soda refills are easy to get as a thin person, no matter how I'm dressed, but when I'm fat and dressed sloppy my soda goes empty a lot. People on the street will politely move out of my way if I'm neat and tidy while fat, but they'll just ignore me coming if I'm sloppily dressed. When I'm fat and dressed sloppy I'm confirming every stereotype people have of a lazy fat slob and that often carries over into how they treat me. (Side note: this gives me a very small window into what it must be like to be black, and have to actively fight the stereotypes of your race. I channel these experiences and thoughts into building empathy for them.)
I agree with you that women have it worse. After the birth of our child my wife would get comments like, "I didn't even realize you were pregnant" which ends up being depressingly similar to the situation in the video you linked. In their mind they're paying a compliment, "oh, you didn't even gain any weight!" but all my wife hears is, "you were fat and got fatter so I didn't even notice." At that point the only socially acceptable thing she can do is smile and say nothing, even though she really wants to just lash out and burst into tears.
Considering that the majority of Americans are currently overweight, does it change the significance of fatshaming any when it's a minority group (i'm assuming most of the fatshamers are of lesser weight) doing the oppressing?
No.
Systematic oppression does not in any way need to be directed from the majority group to a minority group. Take, for example, South African Apartheid, where a minority white population was oppressing multiple other ethnic groups. If we're talking about systematic oppression, all that matters is that the relatively small group with power in the society feels and acts negatively towards a some group of Others.
As far as weight goes, there is apparent some research which indicates being overweight significantly impacts your ability to climb the corporate ladder, which is a common theme among other oppressed group. It obviously isn't the same as race or gender, as someone who is overweight can (in some cases) change their weight, while someone who is Black can't change their skin colour, but they are definitely similar issues.
I don't know. In America at least, I would equate calling a man a dick with calling a woman a bitch. I often see 'oppression' listed as the reason why insults and discrimination can go one way, but not the other. At that point, it doesn't seem like people want to right a wrong, but they want revenge.
I don't have a staked interest in calling people bitches or dicks or whatever, but isn't stating that it's not ok for one group to do something because of their gender/race/religion discrimination? How is it not?