As I understand it, the more downvotes one casts over a certain period, the less weight they carry. The idea of shadow banning is absolutely terrible, and not in the cards here, I should hope.
Like capital punishment is a great tool for fighting murder. Sounds fine until you give it a moment’s thought, something nobody at Reddit itself has done. They make up for it, though, with a strict covenant of silence, so they’ve got that going for them. It’s ridiculously bad policy.
I'm not sure I follow. For true spammers, e.g. a bot account, shadowbans are a great moderation tool, since they don't allow the bot/spammer to know it's been banned. The problem comes when shadowbans are used for other purposes. As long as they're only used as a tool to fight true spam, I don't see the problem.
It’s not a moderation tool, for one thing. At Reddit, mods don’t shadowban, admins do. Anyone can ask for a user to be shadowbanned, including mods, but that’s still not a moderation tool.
What you’re suggesting is, to my mind, like saying capital punishment, if it was only ever carried out on actual murderers, would somehow fight murder itself. In the scenario you describe, it’s trivial for the spammer to detect and confirm that they’ve been shadowbanned. It can be and is, in fact, easily automated. It’s no more effective against determined spammers than capital punishment prevents crimes of passion in the heat of the moment.
In the complementary scenario, where some poor schlub gets shadowbanned and never knows it, they can participate for in some cases years without knowing. So no, shadowbans aren’t magically secret to spammers, but they can be to innocents. Imagine if summary capital punishment was doled out arbitrarily based on whispered guesses made by power mad paranoiacs, and the practice itself was forbidden to discuss. People might object to that policy, which along with ever sending a piece of mod mail, could subject you to that policy.
If you’re working security and someone gots to go, you put them outside. You don’t put them in a sound--proofed cell in the basement to keep an eye on them. Never do someone a minor injury.
The metered cap based on reputation is, subtly, already in place.
In the form of shadow banning downvotes (not downvoters)?
As I understand it, the more downvotes one casts over a certain period, the less weight they carry. The idea of shadow banning is absolutely terrible, and not in the cards here, I should hope.
Not shadow banning the user, but ignoring their downvotes. I don't like shadowbanning users either. Great system if it's already in place.
How about downvoting more than a certain limit could reduce their rep or exp points. As long as it was made clear to the downvoter.
Shadowbans are great tools for one use: fighting spammers. Aside from that I agree that shadowbans are a bad moderation tool.
Like capital punishment is a great tool for fighting murder. Sounds fine until you give it a moment’s thought, something nobody at Reddit itself has done. They make up for it, though, with a strict covenant of silence, so they’ve got that going for them. It’s ridiculously bad policy.
I'm not sure I follow. For true spammers, e.g. a bot account, shadowbans are a great moderation tool, since they don't allow the bot/spammer to know it's been banned. The problem comes when shadowbans are used for other purposes. As long as they're only used as a tool to fight true spam, I don't see the problem.
It’s not a moderation tool, for one thing. At Reddit, mods don’t shadowban, admins do. Anyone can ask for a user to be shadowbanned, including mods, but that’s still not a moderation tool.
What you’re suggesting is, to my mind, like saying capital punishment, if it was only ever carried out on actual murderers, would somehow fight murder itself. In the scenario you describe, it’s trivial for the spammer to detect and confirm that they’ve been shadowbanned. It can be and is, in fact, easily automated. It’s no more effective against determined spammers than capital punishment prevents crimes of passion in the heat of the moment.
In the complementary scenario, where some poor schlub gets shadowbanned and never knows it, they can participate for in some cases years without knowing. So no, shadowbans aren’t magically secret to spammers, but they can be to innocents. Imagine if summary capital punishment was doled out arbitrarily based on whispered guesses made by power mad paranoiacs, and the practice itself was forbidden to discuss. People might object to that policy, which along with ever sending a piece of mod mail, could subject you to that policy.
If you’re working security and someone gots to go, you put them outside. You don’t put them in a sound--proofed cell in the basement to keep an eye on them. Never do someone a minor injury.
Ah. That makes more sense to me. Thanks for the explanation.